From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from sc8-sf-mx2-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.92] helo=mail.sourceforge.net) by sc8-sf-list1-new.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYTGd-0001WF-2X for user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:36:43 -0700 Received: from fmmailgate01.web.de ([217.72.192.221]) by mail.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1HYTGb-0000UT-EP for user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:36:43 -0700 Message-ID: <005601c77567$1ceddb60$eeeea8c0@aldipc> From: "roland" References: <1712880100@web.de> <200704012108.14597.blaisorblade@yahoo.it> <46100EF5.7040802@nagafix.co.uk> <20070402020530.GA589@c2.user-mode-linux.org> <4610D937.20002@nagafix.co.uk> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:40:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [uml-devel] [RFC] UML kernel & rootfs bundle with every kernel release ? List-Id: The user-mode Linux development list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: user-mode-linux-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net Errors-To: user-mode-linux-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net To: Antoine Martin , Jeff Dike Cc: Blaisorblade , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> Why? I've never understood what a framebuffer gives you that you >> don't have now. > Just like the network auto-configuration via dhcp, it would allow users to > download images+kernel and run them like appliances without understanding > anything about X or UML, just click and run. mhh, i also think framebuffer would be nice, but the main idea behind my posting is have some recent linux kernel up and running without any effort - with main focus on kernel, not on apps. sure, it would be nice to have X for the unexperienced users, but if you run uml and get networking up and running, you just do ssh -X into your uml and then you have your X. those people who run the latest kernel for testing special things are not unexperienced, but having a packaged kernel+rootfs "ready to run" would also make _their_ life easier. think of testing several kernels in parallel to find/fix regressions. booting into something graphical with kdm/gdm login, firefox inside etc would be really nice, but that would be probably overkill for the purpose it should serve. framebuffer and X could be added later to uml, and i`m sure, it will exist one day. btw - i think besides that packaged uml+rootfs, the same thing could be distributed in other formats, i.e. qemu, vmware, M$ virtual pc (add your favourite v12n solution here) regards roland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antoine Martin" To: "Jeff Dike" Cc: "Blaisorblade" ; ; ; Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [uml-devel] [RFC] UML kernel & rootfs bundle with every kernel release ? > Jeff Dike wrote: >> On Sun, Apr 01, 2007 at 08:58:45PM +0100, Antoine Martin wrote: >>> I reckon that one critical thing which could drastically increase the >>> user base would be to have a working virtual framebuffer implementation. >> >> Why? I've never understood what a framebuffer gives you that you >> don't have now. > Just like the network auto-configuration via dhcp, it would allow users to > download images+kernel and run them like appliances without understanding > anything about X or UML, just click and run. > We are all capable of setting up Xvfb here, but most users are not, which > is why they download ready-made images. > It would also make it a lot easier to focus on writing a management UI, > hell if there isn't one shortly after, I'll do one myself! > Think of a UML browser image (running IE via wine in a limited image with > just X + wine + IE - I would much prefer that to having wine+IE installed > locally), testing framebuffer apps like gtk-fb/cairo-fb without risking > your dev environment, etc... > > Antoine ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ User-mode-linux-devel mailing list User-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/user-mode-linux-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S965841AbXDBUgf (ORCPT ); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 16:36:35 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S965842AbXDBUgf (ORCPT ); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 16:36:35 -0400 Received: from fmmailgate01.web.de ([217.72.192.221]:49594 "EHLO fmmailgate01.web.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S965841AbXDBUge (ORCPT ); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 16:36:34 -0400 Message-ID: <005601c77567$1ceddb60$eeeea8c0@aldipc> From: "roland" To: "Antoine Martin" , "Jeff Dike" Cc: "Blaisorblade" , , References: <1712880100@web.de> <200704012108.14597.blaisorblade@yahoo.it> <46100EF5.7040802@nagafix.co.uk> <20070402020530.GA589@c2.user-mode-linux.org> <4610D937.20002@nagafix.co.uk> Subject: Re: [uml-devel] [RFC] UML kernel & rootfs bundle with every kernel release ? Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:40:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-15"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org >> Why? I've never understood what a framebuffer gives you that you >> don't have now. > Just like the network auto-configuration via dhcp, it would allow users to > download images+kernel and run them like appliances without understanding > anything about X or UML, just click and run. mhh, i also think framebuffer would be nice, but the main idea behind my posting is have some recent linux kernel up and running without any effort - with main focus on kernel, not on apps. sure, it would be nice to have X for the unexperienced users, but if you run uml and get networking up and running, you just do ssh -X into your uml and then you have your X. those people who run the latest kernel for testing special things are not unexperienced, but having a packaged kernel+rootfs "ready to run" would also make _their_ life easier. think of testing several kernels in parallel to find/fix regressions. booting into something graphical with kdm/gdm login, firefox inside etc would be really nice, but that would be probably overkill for the purpose it should serve. framebuffer and X could be added later to uml, and i`m sure, it will exist one day. btw - i think besides that packaged uml+rootfs, the same thing could be distributed in other formats, i.e. qemu, vmware, M$ virtual pc (add your favourite v12n solution here) regards roland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antoine Martin" To: "Jeff Dike" Cc: "Blaisorblade" ; ; ; Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [uml-devel] [RFC] UML kernel & rootfs bundle with every kernel release ? > Jeff Dike wrote: >> On Sun, Apr 01, 2007 at 08:58:45PM +0100, Antoine Martin wrote: >>> I reckon that one critical thing which could drastically increase the >>> user base would be to have a working virtual framebuffer implementation. >> >> Why? I've never understood what a framebuffer gives you that you >> don't have now. > Just like the network auto-configuration via dhcp, it would allow users to > download images+kernel and run them like appliances without understanding > anything about X or UML, just click and run. > We are all capable of setting up Xvfb here, but most users are not, which > is why they download ready-made images. > It would also make it a lot easier to focus on writing a management UI, > hell if there isn't one shortly after, I'll do one myself! > Think of a UML browser image (running IE via wine in a limited image with > just X + wine + IE - I would much prefer that to having wine+IE installed > locally), testing framebuffer apps like gtk-fb/cairo-fb without risking > your dev environment, etc... > > Antoine