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From: "Hua Zhong" <hzhong@cisco.com>
To: "'Linus Torvalds'" <torvalds@osdl.org>
Cc: "'Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz'" <B.Zolnierkiewicz@elka.pw.edu.pl>,
	"'Peter Williams'" <peterw@aurema.com>,
	"'Marc Boucher'" <marc@linuxant.com>,
	"'Sean Estabrooks'" <seanlkml@rogers.com>,
	"'Paul Wagland'" <paul@wagland.net>,
	"'Rik van Riel'" <riel@redhat.com>,
	"'Timothy Miller'" <miller@techsource.com>, <koke@sindominio.net>,
	"'Rusty Russell'" <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>,
	"'lkml - Kernel Mailing List'" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"'David Gibson'" <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au>
Subject: RE: [PATCH] Blacklist binary-only modules lying about their license
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:37:26 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <00b201c42eea$916f6c40$ca41cb3f@amer.cisco.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404301212070.18014@ppc970.osdl.org>

My last email on this topic. If it weren't Linus I would have stopped. :-)

> What is so hard to understand about the problem with bugs?
> 
> All software has bugs. Binary modules just mean that those bugs are
>  - FATAL to the system, including possibly being a huge security hole.
>  - impossible to debug
>  - impossible to fix

It's the user's choice to run binary modules on their systems, as long as
the "tainted" issue is not hidden (which I clearly said was wrong) so the
support burden is directed to the right company/person who will hopefully
fix those bugs, why should it concern kernel developers so much? Let the
user have a choice. A working computer which occasionally crashes is still
better to the user than a stable computer which doesn't do the job.

In this sense, it doesn't matter it's a bug in user space or kernel space,
or hard or easy to fix, as long as it doesn't cause much extra burden to the
community.

All I try to say is about the business model of supporting closed-source
drivers by a GPL'ed wrapper. It may not be perfect in an imperfect world,
but nothing to criticize on.

> So don't bother trying to stand up for Linuxant. What they 
> did was WRONG, and there are no excuses for it. And I hope 
> that they have it fixed already and we can hereby just forget 
> about this discussion.

You don't need to tell me why it was wrong, because I already said it was
wrong. :-) I'm not standing up for linuxant either - I am not their
customers and I hardly heard of this name before. I'm just standing up for a
generic issue (which is often silly).

And I agree we should stop this thread now.

> 		Linus
> 


  reply	other threads:[~2004-04-30 19:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 202+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <009701c42edf$25e47390$ca41cb3f@amer.cisco.com>
     [not found] ` <40929F5B.9090603@techsource.com>
2004-04-30 18:58   ` [PATCH] Blacklist binary-only modules lying about their license Hua Zhong
2004-04-30 20:14   ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2004-04-30 19:19 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-04-30 19:37   ` Hua Zhong [this message]
2004-04-30 22:47     ` Allowing only "-g" compiled modules! (was: [PATCH] Blacklist binary-only modules lying about their license) Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-04-30 20:11   ` [PATCH] Blacklist binary-only modules lying about their license Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 20:26     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-04-30 20:39       ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 20:44         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-04-30 20:53           ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 21:05             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-04-30 21:10             ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 20:46         ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-04-30 20:34     ` Stefan Smietanowski
2004-04-30 20:47     ` A compromise that could have been reached. " Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 21:07       ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 21:16         ` Rik van Riel
2004-04-30 21:38         ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 22:05           ` Marc Boucher
2004-05-01  2:36           ` Tim Connors
2004-05-01  0:40     ` Jorge Bernal
2004-05-01  5:07     ` Martin J. Bligh
2004-05-01 19:12       ` Marc Boucher
2004-05-01 19:27         ` Davide Libenzi
2004-05-01 19:32         ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2004-05-01 19:33         ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-05-01 22:14           ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-05-01 19:47         ` Nicolas Pitre
2004-05-01 20:53           ` [PATCH] clarify message and give support contact for non-GPL modules Marc Boucher
2004-05-01 21:34             ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-05-01 21:48               ` Marc Boucher
2004-05-01 21:53                 ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-05-01 22:22                 ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-05-01 22:53                   ` Marc Boucher
2004-05-01 23:10                     ` viro
2004-05-02  7:04                       ` Xavier Bestel
2004-05-04 17:06                       ` Timothy Miller
2004-05-01 22:48                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-05-01 23:28                   ` Marc Boucher
2004-05-02  0:22                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-05-02  1:02                       ` Marc Boucher
2004-05-02 12:43                         ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-05-02 13:05                           ` Paul Rolland
2004-05-02 15:35                             ` Marc Boucher
2004-05-02 15:45                               ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-05-04 17:09                     ` Timothy Miller
2004-05-01 20:47         ` [PATCH] Blacklist binary-only modules lying about their license Martin J. Bligh
2004-05-01 20:58           ` Marc Boucher
2004-05-03  0:04         ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-30 20:02 Keith D Burgess Jr
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-04-30 17:47 Keith D Burgess Jr
2004-04-30 18:39 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 19:37 ` Richard B. Johnson
2004-04-30 20:37 ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-29 14:55 Rick Zeman
2004-04-28 18:56 Keith D Burgess Jr
2004-04-28 23:45 ` Tim Connors
2004-04-30 22:48 ` David Woodhouse
     [not found] <20040428011348.GA22754@hockin.org>
2004-04-28  1:33 ` Robert M. Stockmann
     [not found] <20040428003034.GA20811@hockin.org>
2004-04-28  0:56 ` Robert M. Stockmann
     [not found] <20040428000952.GA19522@hockin.org>
2004-04-28  0:18 ` Robert M. Stockmann
     [not found] <878ygh147m.fsf@sanosuke.troilus.org>
2004-04-27 22:59 ` Robert M. Stockmann
2004-04-27 23:05   ` Tim Hockin
2004-04-27 23:30     ` Robert M. Stockmann
2004-04-27 23:41       ` Tim Hockin
2004-04-27 23:59         ` Robert M. Stockmann
2004-05-01  9:19           ` Tomas Szepe
2004-04-27 22:17 Nick Warne
2004-04-27 21:34 Robert M. Stockmann
2004-05-01  9:15 ` Tomas Szepe
2004-04-27 19:03 Steve Lee
2004-04-27 19:37 ` Tigran Aivazian
2004-04-27 13:43 Albert Cahalan
2004-04-27 16:18 ` Jon
2004-04-27 16:58   ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-27 17:25     ` Adam Jaskiewicz
2004-04-27 17:33       ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-27 17:46         ` Chris Friesen
2004-04-27 17:53           ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-04-27 18:10             ` Chris Friesen
2004-04-27 20:37               ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-27 20:44                 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-04-27 18:54             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-04-27 19:03               ` Jorge Bernal (Koke)
2004-04-27 19:16                 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-04-27 19:41                   ` Jorge Bernal (Koke)
2004-04-27 20:18                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-04-28 11:23               ` Helge Hafting
2004-04-27 18:10           ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-27 18:30             ` Chris Friesen
2004-04-27 20:40               ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-28  0:08               ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2004-04-27 19:54         ` Tigran Aivazian
2004-04-28 11:28         ` Helge Hafting
2004-04-27 23:12     ` Rusty Russell
2004-04-28  0:02       ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-28  0:25         ` David Gibson
2004-04-28  1:14           ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-28  3:23             ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-28  6:04               ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-28 17:05                 ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-28 17:37             ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-28 19:31               ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-28 19:46                 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-29  0:02                 ` Rik van Riel
2004-04-29  0:40                   ` Nick Piggin
2004-04-29  2:20                     ` Kenneth Aafløy
2004-04-29  2:31                   ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-29  2:36                     ` Ian Stirling
2004-04-29  2:38                       ` Rik van Riel
2004-04-29  2:47                         ` Ian Stirling
2004-04-29  2:47                       ` Kenneth Aafløy
2004-04-29 22:47                         ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-04-30 15:57                     ` Paulo Marques
2004-04-29 15:15                   ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-29 15:14                     ` Rik van Riel
2004-04-29 21:00                       ` Paul Wagland
2004-04-29 21:36                         ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-29 21:45                           ` viro
2004-04-29 21:47                           ` Jorge Bernal (Koke)
2004-04-29 22:24                             ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-29 22:32                               ` Tim Hockin
2004-04-29 22:49                                 ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-29 22:40                               ` viro
2004-04-29 23:55                               ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-04-30  2:15                                 ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30  4:18                                   ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2004-04-30  4:32                                     ` Peter Williams
2004-04-30 14:49                                       ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2004-04-30 16:10                                       ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 20:01                                         ` Jesse Pollard
2004-04-30  4:43                                   ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-04-30  5:44                                     ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30  6:13                                       ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-04-30  8:04                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2004-04-30  8:48                                         ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-04-30 15:06                                         ` Tigran Aivazian
2004-04-30 15:43                                           ` Chris Friesen
2004-04-30 16:10                                             ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 16:30                                               ` Chris Friesen
2004-05-10  6:25                                                 ` Rogier Wolff
2004-05-10  7:08                                                   ` Måns Rullgård
2004-04-30 16:31                                               ` Gilles May
2004-04-30 16:50                                                 ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 17:44                                                   ` Michael Poole
2004-04-30 18:46                                                     ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 19:17                                                       ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 18:26                                                   ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 18:52                                                     ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 18:22                                               ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 18:01                                           ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30  8:47                                       ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-04-30  9:31                                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-04-30 15:57                                 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 17:14                                   ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-30 17:46                                     ` Sean Estabrooks
2004-04-30 18:27                                       ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 11:49                           ` Helge Hafting
2004-04-30 16:20                             ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 21:03                               ` Gene Heskett
2004-04-29 20:24                     ` [hsflinux] " Timothy Miller
2004-04-29 21:32                       ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-29 22:12                         ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-29 22:20                           ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-29 23:01                             ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30  6:01                               ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2004-05-06 15:06                         ` Pavel Machek
2004-04-30  9:16                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-04-28 23:43             ` Rik van Riel
2004-04-28  1:57         ` Rusty Russell
2004-04-28  3:28           ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-28 11:47             ` Helge Hafting
2004-04-28 16:15               ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-28 19:32                 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-28 19:41                   ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-29 22:41                 ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-04-29 23:03                   ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-30 13:06                 ` Helge Hafting
2004-04-28 14:03             ` Tom Sightler
2004-04-28 16:40               ` Marc Boucher
2004-04-28 22:08                 ` Stephen Hemminger
2004-04-28 23:00                   ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-28 23:54                 ` Rik van Riel
2004-04-27 23:17     ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2004-04-28  2:10     ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-27  2:09 Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2004-04-27  3:13 ` Gilles May
2004-04-27  4:42   ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2004-04-27  9:58     ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2004-04-27  4:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-04-27  6:04   ` Rusty Russell
2004-04-27  9:21     ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-04-27 10:37       ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2004-04-27 12:59         ` Paulo Marques
2004-04-27 17:05           ` Juergen E. Fischer
2004-04-27 18:58           ` Pavel Machek
2004-04-28 22:55             ` Timothy Miller
     [not found]           ` <fa.f05evul.1qmg8gd@ifi.uio.no>
2004-04-27 21:17             ` Junio C Hamano
2004-04-27 21:33               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-04-28 23:24           ` Rik van Riel
2004-04-27 18:52   ` Pavel Machek
2004-04-27  5:26 ` Willy Tarreau
2004-04-27  7:03   ` Grzegorz Piotr Jaskiewicz

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