From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90959C433EF for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 18:27:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1350334AbiC3S3J (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 Mar 2022 14:29:09 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:43610 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1351087AbiC3S2Z (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 Mar 2022 14:28:25 -0400 Received: from mail-il1-x135.google.com (mail-il1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::135]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E375747075 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 11:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x135.google.com with SMTP id j15so15077944ila.13 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 11:24:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel-dk.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject:content-language:to :cc:references:from:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JFFSehnkNeo1K8L02V2cW9CThdS75MCRvOKla3KLkAw=; b=BFTCzD4aFvt9JrLiEz1bvzh6geIg6IptVTdj6IDiPuICAE203wQz9TEb+4sd+GuDm8 7hfsvwiWBq0a8G/L8JH1EJb4H5BgYFm066eNM++IJprdbaiP/K/RQcVNoIdok+4Buz0n VPAQxsddsYW6lxBAvrCd3pw/AsU0VWg+XQ9+f+uSiaJkninfGHo8tQFy0F2WQL/CkiPX 978UdPWCEqFU5zNcqpfpYI+hbpzYnlekkvQ4l365jJLsdpHWW1qs4vwF10T/u8GEeEZH VfPeDuk7IqzhfjQL+dK96hTc4fToK+0EsQR50pC8XTuJ0494LDj5KpiHUMlEIVaBIuzm wOwg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject :content-language:to:cc:references:from:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JFFSehnkNeo1K8L02V2cW9CThdS75MCRvOKla3KLkAw=; b=7FKN4Ld0EmX4HodqlmsIIoMiRYEg26DRouAL7Dl5Oh3CKwrxoiECHDjoic5Te73A2l 8PaflDzs9hdZVjoeAOzh+fk6OL1A3thHrqP+lLgiEBn2ZF1foomW77DIKK8dmx0vz92S RM0juQFp96zOXFf2wzqUS/L5fGPbrwrdZkYf2EAfpXrBVoNuxr1awMV/lG7m31OIjtKQ EavhLs0LNlAA1omtHW29k0ePARgV+V3pLc9OC3Hj2w+9YMYI4wDs7mKi2JEyn0mBTwJl HmZpPwq1heLODiZz+rI0ZtCvb+lF+T/qMdKCViIofh7scB1qIDsCvVTdqfTucM8GummQ KRnw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533DoeqdRVgmqBK51Bnoq+uX8OHcXVgezEKZNIVY23Xt5fpwi1co Qj3521oG5yLjVWnEYhKcEr4yVo+w7rpmq0pg X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwUvZiBYV6AGjovRlQg5dfR2IK8vL/m8lnPjq8KMhvUK1WpCP4kEeYA48hTsQvWDg7IrHos5Q== X-Received: by 2002:a92:cbc3:0:b0:2c6:78fa:41e9 with SMTP id s3-20020a92cbc3000000b002c678fa41e9mr11278289ilq.112.1648664688212; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 11:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.172] ([207.135.234.126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i81-20020a6bb854000000b00649c1b67a6csm11564038iof.28.2022.03.30.11.24.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 30 Mar 2022 11:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0dc208a9-22f2-6758-e776-752ff81e2b19@kernel.dk> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 12:24:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux aarch64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Subject: Re: state of drbd in mainline Content-Language: en-US To: Philipp Reisner Cc: Christoph Hellwig , Lars Ellenberg , drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <20220329070618.GA20396@lst.de> <20220329073254.GA20691@lst.de> <3c42b1ed-7c03-64e6-409e-e92247288cac@kernel.dk> From: Jens Axboe In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-block@vger.kernel.org On 3/30/22 9:23 AM, Philipp Reisner wrote: >>> Jens, my intention is to keep it in-tree, and at some point update it. >>> Regarding your questions: >> >> That'd be great, but it's been years since there was any significant >> updates to the in-kernel drbd... I would strongly suggest that the >> in-kernel be brought closer to what people are mostly running, as it >> stands it's basically unmaintained. > > The changes we worked on over many Years in the more recent drbd-9.x > branches are just too fundamental to do them in small chunks, we could > upstream bit by bit. We need to get that reviewed in a big series. If I Your development model is fundamentally broken. You've allowed your 9.x branch to totally drift from mainline, which just helps underline my earlier point on that in-kernel drbd is effectively abandoned and unmaintained. > started to dump them on linux-block right away, nobody would look at it > seriously, since it would be too much. I intend to get people from red > hat/suse assigned to do such a review. Then we will do that on linux-block, > so that everyone who cares sees what happens. You're just doing it totally wrong. Upstream kernel should match your 9.x branch, and it should have been developed in sync. What you appear to have done is to ignore mainline, while it would've been correct and much easier in the long run to ensure that development is regularly synced to the mainline kernel. You know, like EVERY other driver that is maintained does. Now you've got a giant pile of patches, which probably don't adhere to how we would've done the mainline commits in the first place, and it'll cause a huge pain for not just you but upstream reviewers. I don't care about the former, but I do care a lot about the latter. That's a giant waste of the time of the folks involved on the block side, and definitely not what a responsible kernel maintainer would do. >From your reply here and earlier ones, seems to me that you don't grasp the gravity of the situation, which is also worrying. >> The main discrepancy here is that there are apparently huge numbers of >> in-tree users, yet no fixes or patches at all making it to mainline. >> Either drbd is bug free and doesn't require any fixes at all, which I >> very much would doubt, or fixes aren't being sent upstream. > > It is the broad consent among the users of the drbd-8.4 branch (that is what > is in-tree), is that it works for its purpose. It is for sure not bug-free, > but people are not running into bugs anymore. So, call it free of relevant > bugs, if you want. No new features go into that branch, on purpose. To keep > it that way. > > Have a look at that one real bug-fix that was identified in the last Year. > https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-block/patch/20210426163032.3454129-1-christoph.boehmwalder@linbit.com/ > > When do you want to have that reposted to you? > right now? Just before the next merge window opens? That can go in anytime, so please do submit it. -- Jens Axboe From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-f181.google.com (mail-il1-f181.google.com [209.85.166.181]) by mail19.linbit.com (LINBIT Mail Daemon) with ESMTP id 503F74201B8 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 20:24:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-il1-f181.google.com with SMTP id x9so15112596ilc.3 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 11:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0dc208a9-22f2-6758-e776-752ff81e2b19@kernel.dk> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 12:24:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Philipp Reisner References: <20220329070618.GA20396@lst.de> <20220329073254.GA20691@lst.de> <3c42b1ed-7c03-64e6-409e-e92247288cac@kernel.dk> From: Jens Axboe In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Lars Ellenberg , Christoph Hellwig , drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com Subject: Re: [Drbd-dev] state of drbd in mainline List-Id: "*Coordination* of development, patches, contributions -- *Questions* \(even to developers\) go to drbd-user, please." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On 3/30/22 9:23 AM, Philipp Reisner wrote: >>> Jens, my intention is to keep it in-tree, and at some point update it. >>> Regarding your questions: >> >> That'd be great, but it's been years since there was any significant >> updates to the in-kernel drbd... I would strongly suggest that the >> in-kernel be brought closer to what people are mostly running, as it >> stands it's basically unmaintained. > > The changes we worked on over many Years in the more recent drbd-9.x > branches are just too fundamental to do them in small chunks, we could > upstream bit by bit. We need to get that reviewed in a big series. If I Your development model is fundamentally broken. You've allowed your 9.x branch to totally drift from mainline, which just helps underline my earlier point on that in-kernel drbd is effectively abandoned and unmaintained. > started to dump them on linux-block right away, nobody would look at it > seriously, since it would be too much. I intend to get people from red > hat/suse assigned to do such a review. Then we will do that on linux-block, > so that everyone who cares sees what happens. You're just doing it totally wrong. Upstream kernel should match your 9.x branch, and it should have been developed in sync. What you appear to have done is to ignore mainline, while it would've been correct and much easier in the long run to ensure that development is regularly synced to the mainline kernel. You know, like EVERY other driver that is maintained does. Now you've got a giant pile of patches, which probably don't adhere to how we would've done the mainline commits in the first place, and it'll cause a huge pain for not just you but upstream reviewers. I don't care about the former, but I do care a lot about the latter. That's a giant waste of the time of the folks involved on the block side, and definitely not what a responsible kernel maintainer would do. >From your reply here and earlier ones, seems to me that you don't grasp the gravity of the situation, which is also worrying. >> The main discrepancy here is that there are apparently huge numbers of >> in-tree users, yet no fixes or patches at all making it to mainline. >> Either drbd is bug free and doesn't require any fixes at all, which I >> very much would doubt, or fixes aren't being sent upstream. > > It is the broad consent among the users of the drbd-8.4 branch (that is what > is in-tree), is that it works for its purpose. It is for sure not bug-free, > but people are not running into bugs anymore. So, call it free of relevant > bugs, if you want. No new features go into that branch, on purpose. To keep > it that way. > > Have a look at that one real bug-fix that was identified in the last Year. > https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-block/patch/20210426163032.3454129-1-christoph.boehmwalder@linbit.com/ > > When do you want to have that reposted to you? > right now? Just before the next merge window opens? That can go in anytime, so please do submit it. -- Jens Axboe