Re: [ckrm-tech] [PATCH] BC: resource beancounters (v4) (added user memory)

[Chandra Seetharaman <sekharan@us.ibm.com>]

On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 16:58 -0700, Rohit Seth wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 12:42 -0700, Chandra Seetharaman wrote:
> > On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 12:10 -0700, Rohit Seth wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 11:25 -0700, Chandra Seetharaman wrote:
> 
> > > > There could be a default container which doesn't have any guarantee or
> > > > limit. 
> > > 
> > > First, I think it is critical that we allow processes to run outside of
> > > any container (unless we know for sure that the penalty of running a
> > > process inside a container is very very minimal).
> > 
> > When I meant a default container I meant a default "resource group". In
> > case of container that would be the default environment. I do not see
> > any additional overhead associated with it, it is only associated with
> > how resource are allocated/accounted.
> > 
> 
> There should be some cost when you do atomic inc/dec accounting and
> locks for add/remove resources from any container (including default
> resource group). No?

yes, it would be there, but is not heavy, IMO.
> 
> > > 
> > > And anything running outside a container should be limited by default
> > > Linux settings.
> > 
> > note that the resource available to the default RG will be (total system
> > resource - allocated to RGs).
> 
> I think it will be preferable to not change the existing behavior for
> applications that are running outside any container (in your case
> default resource group).

hmm, when you provide QoS for a set of apps, you will affect (the
resource availability of) other apps. I don't see any way around it. Any
ideas ?
 
> 
> > > 
> > > > When you create containers and assign guarantees to each of them
> > > > make sure that you leave some amount of resource unassigned. 
> > >                            ^^^^^ This will force the "default" container
> > > with limits (indirectly). IMO, the whole guarantee feature gets defeated
> > 
> > You _will_ have limits for the default RG even if we don't have
> > guarantees.
> > 
> > > the moment you bring in this fuzziness.
> > 
> > Not really. 
> >  - Each RG will have a guarantee and limit of each resource. 
> >  - default RG will have (system resource - sum of guarantees)
> >  - Every RG will be guaranteed some amount of resource to provide QoS
> >  - Every RG will be limited at "limit" to prevent DoS attacks.
> >  - Whoever doesn't care either of those set them to don't care values.
> > 
> 
> For the cases that put this don't care, do you depend on existing
> reclaim algorithm (for memory) in kernel?

Yes.
> 
> > > 
> > > > That
> > > > unassigned resources can be used by the default container or can be used
> > > > by containers that want more than their guarantee (and less than their
> > > > limit). This is how CKRM/RG handles this issue.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > It seems that a single notion of limit should suffice, and that limit
> > > should more be treated as something beyond which that resource
> > > consumption in the container will be throttled/not_allowed.
> > 
> > As I stated in an earlier email "Limit only" approach can prevent a
> > system from DoS attacks (and also fits the container model nicely),
> > whereas to provide QoS one would need guarantee.
> > 
> > Without guarantee, a RG that the admin cares about can starve if
> > all/most of the other RGs consume upto their limits.
> > 
> > > 
> 
> If the limits are set appropriately so that containers total memory
> consumption does not exceed the system memory then there shouldn't be
> any QoS issue (to whatever extent it is applicable for specific
> scenario).

Then you will not be work-conserving (IOW over-committing), which is one
of the main advantage of this type of feature.

> 
> -rohit
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> ckrm-tech mailing list
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ckrm-tech
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chandra Seetharaman               | Be careful what you choose....
              - sekharan@us.ibm.com   |      .......you may get it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------