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(213.37.137.93.dyn.user.ono.com [213.37.137.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm1650978fgg.4.2008.09.29.14.46.33 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:46:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Javier =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mart=EDn?= To: The development of GRUB 2 In-Reply-To: <48E122E7.5060004@nic.fi> References: <20080926081627.GA8732@pina.cat> <20080926083411.GA8845@pina.cat> <1222427611.4210.1.camel@fz.local> <20080926121909.GB9530@pina.cat> <20080928133907.GC23805@thorin> <20080928214954.GB5259@pina.cat> <20080929145911.GB12979@thorin> <48E122E7.5060004@nic.fi> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-bGAsY0JTOb45CwkiBm1S" Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:47:33 +0200 Message-Id: <1222724853.25662.2.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Subject: Re: localization of Grub X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GRUB 2 List-Id: The development of GRUB 2 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:46:45 -0000 --=-bGAsY0JTOb45CwkiBm1S Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable El lun, 29-09-2008 a las 21:48 +0300, Vesa J=C3=A4=C3=A4skel=C3=A4inen escr= ibi=C3=B3: > Robert Millan wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:49:54PM +0200, Carles Pina i Estany wrote: > >>> - gettextise the util tools, so they can be translated as normal > >>> programs. > >> ok! (I guess/hope that will be more "burocratic" work than new work) > >=20 > > It _is_ technical work I think, but less fun than the other part :-/ > >=20 > >> I don't expect to have time until 22th October (aprox.). I have more > >> interest in the second part (it's "newer") than first part, but first > >> part has a practical and fast effects with (I think) less investment. > >=20 > > The second part also builds on the first, to some extent. I.e. if you = want > > to test gettext support in GRUB itself, you need some strings to transl= ate, > > and these are provided by the .mo files which are only built if the bui= ld > > system supports that, etc. >=20 > Before you guy's go too deep in detail I would like to remind special > requirements for graphical user interface related to localization. >=20 > You can't just printf stuff to screen in there. There has to be some > changes in logic how information is presented to user. Currently there > is lot of printf's in the code to display information and that is not > going to be too pretty for graphical menu as we need to display some > kind of console on event when there is something to be displayed. >=20 > Also try to think how different languages differentiate for displaying > certain types of information. Here is some simple example. (Bear in mind > if there are grammatical errors or typos or so :)) >=20 > (eng) "See Figure 2 in page 14 for more details.' -> (fin) "Sivulla 14 > olevassa kuvassa 2 on enemm=C3=A4n tietoa asiasta.' >=20 > Please notice difference in order of arguments in the languages. >=20 > Also there are some weird scripts that change order of characters. In > example for some right-to-left scripts seem to have this feature. On > example that I think belongs to this group is hebrew where they normally > write from right-to-left, but for English (or foreign) texts are still > visually correct. >=20 > In example: > "This is native 12and this is > English34, so weird." >=20 > Would be something like: > ".rdiew os ,42and this is English31 evitan si sihT" >=20 > So this subject really has more details than meets the eye in first sight= :) >=20 Well, no one proposed a full implementation of the Unicode bi-di algorithm, and I think such a complex feat goes way beyond the development power behind GRUB right now. However, gettext does allow for the changes in the argument order you are worried about. Thus, there should be no problem translating the interface to LTR languages for the time being. -Habbit --=-bGAsY0JTOb45CwkiBm1S Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Esta parte del mensaje =?ISO-8859-1?Q?est=E1?= firmada digitalmente -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iQIVAwUASOFM9KSl+Fbdeo72AQKeMw//d6GgvBc9dMuKlAzEOvLN/kZg5PIWeAp8 vP/ESbr9uKnS8FDAKsEQs4IYrM2ZjVgWhCY7rJyM5CrbNAvRbyZYkF5cWS+8Vr4D GiJxCQ57wpmN4jWJxKBpFjR2d+dep1cGE7fXE3wsZsK6xli+Zl3ua+vnVv5H1HoU FeMGcnDOVyKqhCR/ooRXzUcdbwQC+HTVluyddqh9Mk3N0eZMev1loNExS8HpgiLS XOWfNCebJ7au3MJhbMEc7zBrQVUzvmxZWrGnYW4YeD3GpVBAkUIKhrdRjbb5nGnZ 4kAFEHZaCtOj9JN5qqP7vwYWQT0yoecZZ8NGMReN58z1PW+eDRevBtiCZ8/gqIjh 2dbtMUnJm8ugXjJwhm+nexr5j1VzHASM3+/xts2L/Nb15IlWIlVpxfyBxpUrst+Q 4SXviMNQje2q2SvS9we1s4IQvzjxBkwCi/vmgNqyjALEwHZIHjvWu9fKJu4b+U+h pgx8PxAbYtcUZXKDDWDlpBB7zebU7D9art0KZP8qKmkxSop2z/QbiC1cK3YfkSLo ljiyMg+bmDI7S5eduN+caXC4kjdQcfL5KPi0oDDYUZsSCya/g7heP8KMiUIun1Wa UBQhonArKnAeKw2dyYZZMDzUoh06VuIABW5bITCSaMYFs1syPj0MJ8GXgimPoJyi O40BcogEFgw= =9LSP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-bGAsY0JTOb45CwkiBm1S--