From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Matthew Garrett Subject: Re: [PATCH V2] Change ACPI IPMI support to "default y" Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:09:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1392937781.20109.24.camel@x230> References: <20140220201458.GA7099@sgi.com> <1392927381.20109.0.camel@x230> <20140220204028.GJ17949@sgi.com> <1392929163.20109.5.camel@x230> <20140220205901.GM17949@sgi.com> <1392930047.20109.6.camel@x230> <20140220212854.GO17949@sgi.com> <1392932363.20109.11.camel@x230> <20140220220656.GT17949@sgi.com> <1392935204.20109.17.camel@x230> <20140220224529.GV17949@sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Return-path: Received: from mail-bn1blp0184.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([207.46.163.184]:25671 "EHLO na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753770AbaBTXJs (ORCPT ); Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:09:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20140220224529.GV17949@sgi.com> Content-Language: en-US Content-ID: Sender: linux-acpi-owner@vger.kernel.org List-Id: linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org To: "rja@sgi.com" Cc: "lenb@kernel.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "minyard@acm.org" , "rjw@rjwysocki.net" , "linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org" T24gVGh1LCAyMDE0LTAyLTIwIGF0IDE2OjQ1IC0wNjAwLCBSdXNzIEFuZGVyc29uIHdyb3RlOg0K PiBPbiBUaHUsIEZlYiAyMCwgMjAxNCBhdCAxMDoyNjo0NVBNICswMDAwLCBNYXR0aGV3IEdhcnJl dHQgd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gPiBCZWNhdXNlIEknbSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gZW5zdXJlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGRl ZmF1bHQgYmVoYXZpb3VyIG9mIHRoZSBrZXJuZWwgaXMNCj4gPiB0byAqd29yayouIERlZmF1bHRp bmcgdG8gaGF2aW5nIElQTUkgYmUgbW9kdWxhciBtZWFucyB0aGF0IHRoZSBkZWZhdWx0DQo+ID4g YmVoYXZpb3VyIG9mIHRoZSBrZXJuZWwsIGFzIGZhciBhcyB0aGUgQUNQSSBzcGVjIGdvZXMsIGlz IHRvIGJlIGJyb2tlbi4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBBQ1BJIHNwZWMgcmVxdWlyZXMgSVBNSSBmdW5jdGlv bmFsaXR5IGJlZm9yZSBhIG1vZHVsZSBsb2FkcyBhdA0KPiBib290IHRpbWU/ICBBbmQgdGhlIGtl cm5lbCBpcyAqYnJva2VuKiBpZiBpdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0IEFDSVAgSVBNSQ0KPiBmdW5j dGlvbmFsaXR5IGJlZm9yZSBtb2R1bGUgbG9hZCB0aW1lPyAgUmVhbGx5Pw0KDQpUaGVyZSdzIG5v IG1lY2hhbmlzbSB0byBlbnN1cmUgdGhhdCBJUE1JIHN1cHBvcnQgd2lsbCBiZSBsb2FkZWQgYmVm b3JlDQpBQ1BJIGNhbGxzIGF0dGVtcHQgdG8gYWNjZXNzIElQTUkgb3BlcmF0aW9uIHJlZ2lvbnMu IFJlYWxseS4NCg0KPiA+IEFDUEkgNC4wIGluY2x1ZGVzIHN1cHBvcnQgZm9yIElQTUkgb3BlcmF0 aW9uIHJlZ2lvbnMuIE1vZHVsYXIgSVBNSSBtZWFucw0KPiA+IHRoYXQgdGhlIGtlcm5lbCB3aWxs IHNwZW5kIGEgc2lnbmlmaWNhbnQgYW1vdW50IG9mIHRpbWUgKHBvdGVudGlhbGx5DQo+ID4gdW50 aWwgYSB1c2VyIG1hbnVhbGx5IGxvYWRzIGEgZHJpdmVyKSBmYWlsaW5nIHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCBw YXJ0IG9mIHRoZQ0KPiA+IElQTUkgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbi4gVGhhdCdzIGEgcHJvYmxlbSwgYW5k IHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0IGZpeCBpcyB0byBlbnN1cmUNCj4gPiB0aGF0IHRoZSBrZXJuZWwgYWx3YXlz IGltcGxlbWVudHMgSVBNSSBzdXBwb3J0Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhlIEFDUEkgc3BlYyBzYXlzIGlwbWlf c2kgY2Fubm90IGJlIGEgZHJpdmVyPyAgUmVhbGx5Pw0KPiBXaGF0IGlzIHRoZSByZWFsIHByb2Js ZW0geW91IGFyZSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gc29sdmU/DQoNClRoZSBtb3N0IHN0cmFpZ2h0Zm9yd2FyZCBj YXNlIGlzIHRoYXQgb2YgYW4gQUNQSSBwb3dlciBtZXRlci4gU2V2ZXJhbA0KdmVuZG9ycyBpbXBs ZW1lbnQgdGhpcyB3aXRoIGFuIElQTUkgb3BlcmF0aW9uIHJlZ2lvbi4gQ2FsbGluZyBhbnkgb2Yg dGhlDQpwb3dlciBtZXRlciBmdW5jdGlvbnMgd2lsbCB0cmlnZ2VyIGFjY2VzcyB0byB0aGF0IElQ TUkgb3BlcmF0aW9uIHJlZ2lvbiwNCndoaWNoIHdpbGwgZmFpbC4gVGhpcyBtYXkgcmVzdWx0IGlu IGRyaXZlciBpbml0aWFsaXNhdGlvbiBmYWlsaW5nLiBUaGVyZQ0KaXMgbm8gZXhwcmVzcyBkZXBl bmRlbmN5IGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIHBvd2VyIG1ldGVyIGRyaXZlciBhbmQgaXBtaV9zaSwNCmJlY2F1 c2UgdGhlIHNwZWMgZW52aXNhZ2VzIElQTUkgc3VwcG9ydCBhcyBiYXNpYyBrZXJuZWwgZnVuY3Rp b25hbGl0eS4NCkl0J3MgbWVhbnQgdG8gYmUgdGhlcmUgYmVmb3JlIHlvdSBzdGFydCBsb2FkaW5n IGFueSBvdGhlciBkcml2ZXJzLg0KDQo+ID4gTm93LCB5b3UndmUgZGVzY3JpYmVkIHNvbWUgb3Ro ZXIgcHJvYmxlbXMuIEkgZG9uJ3QgZGlzYWdyZWUgdGhhdCB0aG9zZQ0KPiA+IGFyZSBwcm9ibGVt cy4gVGhlIGNvcnJlY3QgdGhpbmcgZm9yIHVzIHRvIGRvIHdpdGggdGhvc2UgcHJvYmxlbXMgaXMg dG8NCj4gPiBmaXggdGhlbSwgbm90IHRvIHNpbXBseSBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIGtlcm5lbCBkZWZhdWx0 cyBzdWNoIHRoYXQgaXQncw0KPiA+IHBvc3NpYmxlIGZvciB1c2VycyB0byBjaG9vc2UgYmV0d2Vl biB0d28gZGlmZmVyZW50bHkgYnJva2VuIHN0YXRlcy4gSSdtDQo+ID4gYWJzb2x1dGVseSB3aWxs aW5nIHRvIGhlbHAsIGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgeW91J3JlIHdpbGxpbmcgdG8gcHV0IHNvbWUNCj4gPiBy ZWFzb25hYmxlIGFtb3VudCBvZiBlZmZvcnQgaW50byBkZXNjcmliaW5nIHRoZW0uDQo+IA0KPiBI b3cgYWJvdXQgQUNQSSBJUE1JIGZ1bmN0aW9uYWxpdHkgc3RhcnRzIHdoZW4gdGhlIGlwbWlfc2kN Cj4gbW9kdWxlIGxvYWRzIGF0IGJvb3QgdGltZS4gIA0KDQpJJ3ZlIHJlcGVhdGVkbHkgYXNrZWQg Zm9yIHlvdSB0byBwcm92aWRlIGRldGFpbGVkIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9ucyBvZiB0aGUNCnByb2JsZW1z IHlvdSd2ZSBzZWVuIGJlY2F1c2UgSSBoYXZlIGEgZ2VudWluZSBpbnRlcmVzdCBpbiBmaXhpbmcg dGhlbS4NCklmIHlvdSdyZSBqdXN0IGdvaW5nIHRvIGNoaWxkaXNobHkgcmVmdXNlIHRoZW4gdGhp cyBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGlzDQpwb2ludGxlc3MuIA0KDQotLSANCk1hdHRoZXcgR2FycmV0dCA8bWF0 dGhldy5nYXJyZXR0QG5lYnVsYS5jb20+DQo= From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753868AbaBTXJt (ORCPT ); Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:09:49 -0500 Received: from mail-bn1blp0184.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([207.46.163.184]:25671 "EHLO na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753770AbaBTXJs (ORCPT ); Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:09:48 -0500 From: Matthew Garrett To: "rja@sgi.com" CC: "lenb@kernel.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "minyard@acm.org" , "rjw@rjwysocki.net" , "linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: [PATCH V2] Change ACPI IPMI support to "default y" Thread-Topic: [PATCH V2] Change ACPI IPMI support to "default y" Thread-Index: AQHPLMZ9xGM3QUTlOk+rIS3zgvGkBZq+l00AgAAHJxWAAAUvD4AACFkLgAAKotuAAArDa4AABr2A Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:09:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1392937781.20109.24.camel@x230> References: <20140220201458.GA7099@sgi.com> <1392927381.20109.0.camel@x230> <20140220204028.GJ17949@sgi.com> <1392929163.20109.5.camel@x230> <20140220205901.GM17949@sgi.com> <1392930047.20109.6.camel@x230> <20140220212854.GO17949@sgi.com> <1392932363.20109.11.camel@x230> <20140220220656.GT17949@sgi.com> <1392935204.20109.17.camel@x230> <20140220224529.GV17949@sgi.com> In-Reply-To: <20140220224529.GV17949@sgi.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2001:470:1f07:1371:6267:20ff:fec3:2318] x-forefront-prvs: 01283822F8 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10009001)(6009001)(24454002)(199002)(189002)(377424004)(51704005)(83072002)(51856001)(81342001)(74706001)(19580395003)(80022001)(83322001)(94946001)(76796001)(76786001)(19580405001)(76482001)(74366001)(85852003)(81542001)(54356001)(95666003)(74876001)(56776001)(53806001)(90146001)(81686001)(46102001)(65816001)(74502001)(81816001)(94316002)(74662001)(56816005)(59766001)(4396001)(33716001)(87936001)(49866001)(47446002)(63696002)(80976001)(77096001)(93136001)(93516002)(92566001)(47736001)(69226001)(33646001)(95416001)(2656002)(54316002)(31966008)(77982001)(85306002)(86362001)(47976001)(87266001)(92726001)(50986001)(79102001)(3826001)(217873001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;SCL:1;SRVR:BN1PR05MB424;H:BN1PR05MB423.namprd05.prod.outlook.com;CLIP:2001:470:1f07:1371:6267:20ff:fec3:2318;FPR:E0DCF5DF.AC16D721.71D0B992.4AE2D101.2035E;PTR:InfoNoRecords;A:1;MX:1;LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nebula.com Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by mail.home.local id s1KN9uWC022712 On Thu, 2014-02-20 at 16:45 -0600, Russ Anderson wrote: > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:26:45PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > Because I'm trying to ensure that the default behaviour of the kernel is > > to *work*. Defaulting to having IPMI be modular means that the default > > behaviour of the kernel, as far as the ACPI spec goes, is to be broken. > > The ACPI spec requires IPMI functionality before a module loads at > boot time? And the kernel is *broken* if it does not support ACIP IPMI > functionality before module load time? Really? There's no mechanism to ensure that IPMI support will be loaded before ACPI calls attempt to access IPMI operation regions. Really. > > ACPI 4.0 includes support for IPMI operation regions. Modular IPMI means > > that the kernel will spend a significant amount of time (potentially > > until a user manually loads a driver) failing to implement part of the > > IPMI specification. That's a problem, and the correct fix is to ensure > > that the kernel always implements IPMI support. > > The ACPI spec says ipmi_si cannot be a driver? Really? > What is the real problem you are trying to solve? The most straightforward case is that of an ACPI power meter. Several vendors implement this with an IPMI operation region. Calling any of the power meter functions will trigger access to that IPMI operation region, which will fail. This may result in driver initialisation failing. There is no express dependency between the power meter driver and ipmi_si, because the spec envisages IPMI support as basic kernel functionality. It's meant to be there before you start loading any other drivers. > > Now, you've described some other problems. I don't disagree that those > > are problems. The correct thing for us to do with those problems is to > > fix them, not to simply change the kernel defaults such that it's > > possible for users to choose between two differently broken states. I'm > > absolutely willing to help, as long as you're willing to put some > > reasonable amount of effort into describing them. > > How about ACPI IPMI functionality starts when the ipmi_si > module loads at boot time. I've repeatedly asked for you to provide detailed descriptions of the problems you've seen because I have a genuine interest in fixing them. If you're just going to childishly refuse then this discussion is pointless. -- Matthew Garrett {.n++%ݶw{.n+{G{ayʇڙ,jfhz_(階ݢj"mG?&~iOzv^m ?I