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From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
To: Jordan Glover <Golden_Miller83@protonmail.ch>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
Cc: Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@google.com>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Tom Lendacky <thomas.lendacky@amd.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Len Brown <len.brown@intel.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>, Christoph Lameter <cl@linux.com>,
	Chris Metcalf <cmetcalf@mellanox.com>,
	Markus Trippelsdorf <markus@trippelsdorf.de>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Waiman Long <longman@redhat.com>,
	Peter Foley <pefoley2@pefoley.com>,
	Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>,
	Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.com>,
	"H . J . Lu" <hjl.tools@gmail.com>,
	Daniel Micay <danielmicay@gmail.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Kernel Hardening <kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>
Subject: Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 09:42:37 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1502804557.6577.61.camel@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ivFwkYub2xhfl1WsxFJ7rARXO9-8ijXuThISjaPUTE7KlKY-FxIcEGkpLtPn9YPtrVqY2FtYVYlZbngdOaHkDytuDvbzTA1KUkLnqnrOOGc=@protonmail.ch>

On Tue, 2017-08-15 at 08:15 -0400, Jordan Glover wrote:
> Hello,
> I write to put different perspective into the topic. I'm glad that
> kernel developers care about performance optimizations and I see how
> 10% overhead can be a problem for some. On the other hand last ten
> years gave us 1000% faster hardware which trumps anything software
> can do. For many users like us performance isn't a problem, we have
> plenty of it and if we haven't we can buy it. It can be money
> problem, not software engineering problem.

CPUs stopped getting faster at a dramatic rate, though,
while network cards continue to get faster.

In some areas, the kernel is more squeezed for CPU cycles
today than it has ever been before.

Ingo is suggesting that the security enhancement be
implemented in a way that doesn't come with a 10% performance
gain. There are other ways to relocate a kernel than with PIE.

  reply	other threads:[~2017-08-15 13:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 215+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-08-10 17:25 [kernel-hardening] x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 01/23] x86/crypto: Adapt assembly for PIE support Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 02/23] x86: Use symbol name on bug table " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 03/23] x86: Use symbol name in jump " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 04/23] x86: Add macro to get symbol address " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 05/23] xen: Adapt assembly " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 06/23] kvm: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 07/23] x86: relocate_kernel - " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 08/23] x86/entry/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 09/23] x86: pm-trace - " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 10/23] x86/CPU: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 11/23] x86/acpi: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 12/23] x86/boot/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 13/23] x86/power/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 12:36   ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 12:36   ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 12:36     ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 15:09     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09     ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 14/23] x86/paravirt: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 15/23] x86/boot/64: Use _text in a global " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 16/23] x86/percpu: Adapt percpu " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 17/23] compiler: Option to default to hidden symbols Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 18/23] x86/relocs: Handle DYN relocations for PIE support Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 19/23] x86: Support global stack cookie Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 20/23] x86/pie: Add option to build the kernel as PIE for x86_64 Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 21/23] x86/relocs: Add option to generate 64-bit relocations Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 22/23] x86/module: Add support for mcmodel large and PLTs Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [kernel-hardening] [RFC v2 23/23] x86/kaslr: Add option to extend KASLR range from 1GB to 3GB Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 12:41 ` x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization Ingo Molnar
2017-08-11 12:41 ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-11 12:41   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-11 15:09   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 15:09     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15  7:56     ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15  7:56       ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15 12:15       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jordan Glover
2017-08-15 13:42         ` Rik van Riel [this message]
2017-08-15 14:20       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:20         ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:47         ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:47         ` [kernel-hardening] " Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:47           ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:58           ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:58             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:58           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 15:12         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 15:12         ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 15:12           ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 16:09           ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:09           ` [kernel-hardening] " Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:09             ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:26           ` [kernel-hardening] " Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:26             ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:32             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:32             ` [kernel-hardening] " Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:32               ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:26           ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 16:57           ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 16:57             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17  8:09             ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17  8:09               ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17 14:10               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:10               ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:10                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:42                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2017-08-24 21:42                     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-08-25 15:35                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:35                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:35                       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:42                   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-08-25  1:07                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Steven Rostedt
2017-08-25  1:07                     ` Steven Rostedt
2017-08-25  8:04                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25  8:04                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25  8:04                     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25 15:05                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:05                       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-29 19:34                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-29 19:34                         ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 15:59                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-21 15:59                           ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-21 16:10                           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 16:10                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 16:10                             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 21:21                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:21                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:21                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  4:24                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Markus Trippelsdorf
2017-09-22  4:24                                 ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2017-09-22 14:38                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 14:38                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 14:38                                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:16                           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:16                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:16                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 16:32                             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 16:32                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 16:32                               ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:08                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:08                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:08                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:43                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:43                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:43                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-10-02 20:28                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-10-02 20:28                                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-10-02 20:28                                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:38                               ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:38                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:57                                 ` Kees Cook
2017-09-22 18:57                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2017-09-22 18:57                                   ` Kees Cook
2017-09-22 19:06                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 19:06                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 22:19                                     ` hjl.tools
2017-09-22 22:30                                     ` hjl.tools
2017-09-22 19:06                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:59                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:59                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:59                                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:49                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:49                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23  9:49                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:38                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-21 15:59                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-29 19:34                       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25 15:05                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17 14:12               ` [kernel-hardening] " Boris Lukashev
2017-08-17 14:12               ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-17 14:12                 ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-25 15:38                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Christopher Lameter
2017-08-25 15:38                 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-25 15:38                   ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-27 22:39                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Boris Lukashev
2017-08-27 22:39                     ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-27 22:39                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Boris Lukashev
2017-08-28  9:59                 ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-28  9:59                 ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-28  9:59                   ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-17  8:09             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-21 13:32           ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 13:32             ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28             ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28               ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-09-22 18:27               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:27               ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:27                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-23 10:00                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23 10:00                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-23 10:00                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-24 22:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2017-09-24 22:37                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-09-24 22:37                     ` Pavel Machek
2017-09-25  7:33                     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-25  7:33                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-09-25  7:33                       ` Ingo Molnar
2017-10-06 10:39                       ` Pavel Machek
2017-10-06 10:39                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2017-10-06 10:39                         ` Pavel Machek
2017-10-20  8:13                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2017-10-20  8:13                           ` Ingo Molnar
2017-10-20  8:13                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-21 14:28             ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 13:32           ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:31         ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:31           ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 15:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-21 15:57           ` [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-21 15:57             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-28  1:26           ` [kernel-hardening] " H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-28  1:26             ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-28  1:26           ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-08-21 14:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-15 14:20       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15  7:56     ` Ingo Molnar
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-07-18 22:33 [kernel-hardening] " Thomas Garnier
2017-07-19 14:08 ` [kernel-hardening] " Christopher Lameter
2017-07-19 19:21   ` Kees Cook
2017-07-19 19:21   ` Kees Cook

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