From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5402B8D4 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 15:27:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (bedivere.hansenpartnership.com [66.63.167.143]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3818603 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 15:27:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <1525361268.3225.17.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: James Bottomley To: Sasha Levin , Willy Tarreau Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 08:27:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20180503150608.GM18390@sasha-vm> References: <20180501163818.GD1468@sasha-vm> <20180501194450.GD10479@thunk.org> <20180501200019.GA7397@sasha-vm> <20180501205448.GE10479@thunk.org> <877eol808s.fsf@intel.com> <1525357984.3225.12.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <20180503144850.GC23311@1wt.eu> <20180503150608.GM18390@sasha-vm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Greg KH , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, 2018-05-03 at 15:06 +0000, Sasha Levin via Ksummit-discuss wrote: > On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 04:48:50PM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote: > > On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 07:33:04AM -0700, James Bottomley wrote: > > > They're definitely for bug fixes, but there's a spectrum: obvious > > > bug fixes with no side effects are easy to justify.  More complex > > > bug fixes run the risk of having side effects which introduce > > > other bugs, so could potentially destabilize the -rc process.  In > > > SCSI we tend to look at what the user visible effects of the bug > > > are in the post -rc5 region and if they're slight or wouldn't be > > > visible to most users, we'll hold them over.  If the fix looks > > > complex and we're not sure we caught the ramifications, we often > > > add it to the merge window tree with a cc to stable and a note > > > saying to wait X weeks before actually adding to the > > > stable tree just to make sure no side effects show up with wider > > > testing.  So, as with most things, it's a judgment call for the > > > maintainer. > > > > For me this is the right, and responsible way to deal with bug > > fixes. Self-control is much more efficient than random rejection > > and favors a good analysis. > > I think that the ideal outcome of this discussion, at least for me, > is a tool to go under scripts/ that would allow maintainers to get > some sort of (quantifiable) data that will indicate how well the > patch was tested via the regular channels. > > At which point it's the maintainer's judgement call on whether he > wants to grab the patch or wait for more tests or reviews. > > This is very similar to what James has described, it just needs to > leave his brain and turn into code :) I appreciate the sentiment, but if we could script taste, we'd have replaced Linus with something far less cantankerous a long time ago ... It's also a sad fact that a lot of things which look like obvious fixes actually turn out not to be so with later testing. This is why the user visibility test is paramount. If a bug fix has no real user visible effects, it's often better to defer it no matter how obvious it looks, which is why the static code checkers often get short shrift before a merge window. A script measuring user visibility would be nice, but looks a bit complex ... James From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Cyrus-Session-Id: sloti22d1t05-2687911-1525361279-2-6560502544193777997 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 3.0 X-Spam-known-sender: no ("Email failed DMARC policy for domain") X-Spam-score: 0.0 X-Spam-hits: BAYES_00 -1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS 0.25, MAILING_LIST_MULTI -1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED -2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS -0.001, SPF_PASS -0.001, LANGUAGES en, BAYES_USED global, SA_VERSION 3.4.0 X-Spam-source: IP='140.211.169.12', Host='mail.linuxfoundation.org', Country='US', FromHeader='com', MailFrom='org' X-Spam-charsets: plain='utf-8' X-IgnoreVacation: yes ("Email failed DMARC policy for domain") X-Resolved-to: greg@kroah.com X-Delivered-to: greg@kroah.com X-Mail-from: ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=messagingengine.com; s=fm2; t= 1525361278; b=Og9LGJ4Rvf1bZcv8sJG5K5R9KW3zXWI5BEKs3zCup9K0UkDzck swipeZ27Q5x9aIn21SxlTAF/LFYBxMEHqSnnupFOnbp950aqYU+gAAETTu9JvpXX dpcGpOOa218R/vZ26et4ERIZtVmTE/w11DUCIZRZhUkGhvyLnZA4Oed/ujrX7E1o qKW6n2bswmTUl7O2wIDBAMkm2ldfoT5XNAQv0V8n+hSqpf9NTAybIFWT0sJ/ZBLk 3VoZEtTtPLorBzKanJj85WymN59Y+ipFtZ9LoKOT2Pxo0Yn6zKF/STcrxwhRhNgr 82Wlsm9VVJRwQm2V9mpFa2d2p2SmCDlUPblQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:date:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:cc:subject:list-id:list-unsubscribe :list-archive:list-post:list-help:list-subscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:sender; s=fm2; t=1525361278; bh=VsQXF HiSQK1WNLz5lYvMQuXu0ej1uKB4LvLAvjRtGLI=; b=LveIUI/U+8Kw31kz3d6Oa RBr7abe6pbPEMciFEF4fPluP0FaSfvOE+SjMWa0dullKrW1KNTlScu9JS+57ukQG auiA3A+r1rsGRfMyGREK74hzo7rBkUvC79gChV8d9BPBCW8HYtVtmuGsC7H/atZd 42faZZVisfne7GhrwH4VlzlFQ3/cP4u7RanfIEuGykrZhYS9VvNIsMclIN68Q3f7 elGrQtiWm5re9onXbbw22J7xxvIpklJ8YQu26uOjYZW+yb15zLeDwLLM1mUPiZ/d VufTRPmUICLcn7HxCywMg2KFYdAaGpx8x00MVPqe3NvkougRZjapOSJhGzUTkfYj Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.messagingengine.com; arc=none (no signatures found); dkim=fail (message has been altered, 1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b=gnfRuMVY x-bits=1024 x-keytype=rsa x-algorithm=sha256 x-selector=20151216; dmarc=fail (p=none,has-list-id=yes,d=none) header.from=hansenpartnership.com; iprev=pass policy.iprev=140.211.169.12 (mail.linuxfoundation.org); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org smtp.helo=mail.linuxfoundation.org; x-aligned-from=fail; x-cm=discussion score=0; x-ptr=pass x-ptr-helo=mail.linuxfoundation.org x-ptr-lookup=mail.linuxfoundation.org; x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=lists.linuxfoundation.org smtp.result=pass smtp_org.domain=linuxfoundation.org smtp_org.result=pass smtp_is_org_domain=no header.domain=hansenpartnership.com header.result=pass header_is_org_domain=yes; x-tls=pass version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128; x-vs=clean score=-100 state=0 Authentication-Results: mx1.messagingengine.com; arc=none (no signatures found); dkim=fail (message has been altered, 1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b=gnfRuMVY x-bits=1024 x-keytype=rsa x-algorithm=sha256 x-selector=20151216; dmarc=fail (p=none,has-list-id=yes,d=none) header.from=hansenpartnership.com; iprev=pass policy.iprev=140.211.169.12 (mail.linuxfoundation.org); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org smtp.helo=mail.linuxfoundation.org; x-aligned-from=fail; x-cm=discussion score=0; x-ptr=pass x-ptr-helo=mail.linuxfoundation.org x-ptr-lookup=mail.linuxfoundation.org; x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=lists.linuxfoundation.org smtp.result=pass smtp_org.domain=linuxfoundation.org smtp_org.result=pass smtp_is_org_domain=no header.domain=hansenpartnership.com header.result=pass header_is_org_domain=yes; x-tls=pass version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128; x-vs=clean score=-100 state=0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean X-CM-Envelope: MS4wfBRbEzYf6lAlLkGpve+3LOPDrSUut/WlsbPshYT//qYtubGJfjYg3sMTFp8ugrprxVGN5VHsguvs2VEKDpAmaMk2Gxl8Oq7XaS/AvopVSSzSjFQpzISX fGeu0G4K6ERA9ctQgFfZofW1GMtFPQUAb8pOE7CKlb9ImTdObNA8zTnqJtJsO16HmH0lemZQqfO+MVhkydLxgkYc50TT4GjutqHZ96S4me71mwkoouef9oSz k7InlKfDvB9ZQaia/5f7Ww== X-CM-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=WaUilXpX c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=5MPDoNpceV4HFXFrvkM3CQ==:117 a=5MPDoNpceV4HFXFrvkM3CQ==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=VUJBJC2UJ8kA:10 a=-uNXE31MpBQA:10 a=jJxKW8Ag-pUA:10 a=ag1SF4gXAAAA:8 a=oegzBmWK145t3pjcEiQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Yupwre4RP9_Eg_Bd0iYG:22 cc=dsc X-ME-CMScore: 0 X-ME-CMCategory: discussion X-Remote-Delivered-To: ksummit-discuss@mail.linuxfoundation.org Message-ID: <1525361268.3225.17.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: James Bottomley To: Sasha Levin , Willy Tarreau Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 08:27:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20180503150608.GM18390@sasha-vm> References: <20180501163818.GD1468@sasha-vm> <20180501194450.GD10479@thunk.org> <20180501200019.GA7397@sasha-vm> <20180501205448.GE10479@thunk.org> <877eol808s.fsf@intel.com> <1525357984.3225.12.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <20180503144850.GC23311@1wt.eu> <20180503150608.GM18390@sasha-vm> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.6 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Remote-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Remote-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Greg KH , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches X-BeenThere: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org Errors-To: ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-getmail-retrieved-from-mailbox: INBOX X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-ID: T24gVGh1LCAyMDE4LTA1LTAzIGF0IDE1OjA2ICswMDAwLCBTYXNoYSBMZXZpbiB2aWEgS3N1bW1p dC1kaXNjdXNzCndyb3RlOgo+IE9uIFRodSwgTWF5IDAzLCAyMDE4IGF0IDA0OjQ4OjUwUE0gKzAy MDAsIFdpbGx5IFRhcnJlYXUgd3JvdGU6Cj4gPiBPbiBUaHUsIE1heSAwMywgMjAxOCBhdCAwNzoz MzowNEFNIC0wNzAwLCBKYW1lcyBCb3R0b21sZXkgd3JvdGU6Cj4gPiA+IFRoZXkncmUgZGVmaW5p dGVseSBmb3IgYnVnIGZpeGVzLCBidXQgdGhlcmUncyBhIHNwZWN0cnVtOiBvYnZpb3VzCj4gPiA+ IGJ1ZyBmaXhlcyB3aXRoIG5vIHNpZGUgZWZmZWN0cyBhcmUgZWFzeSB0byBqdXN0aWZ5LsKgwqBN b3JlIGNvbXBsZXgKPiA+ID4gYnVnIGZpeGVzIHJ1biB0aGUgcmlzayBvZiBoYXZpbmcgc2lkZSBl ZmZlY3RzIHdoaWNoIGludHJvZHVjZQo+ID4gPiBvdGhlciBidWdzLCBzbyBjb3VsZCBwb3RlbnRp YWxseSBkZXN0YWJpbGl6ZSB0aGUgLXJjIHByb2Nlc3MuwqDCoEluCj4gPiA+IFNDU0kgd2UgdGVu ZCB0byBsb29rIGF0IHdoYXQgdGhlIHVzZXIgdmlzaWJsZSBlZmZlY3RzIG9mIHRoZSBidWcKPiA+ ID4gYXJlIGluIHRoZSBwb3N0IC1yYzUgcmVnaW9uIGFuZCBpZiB0aGV5J3JlIHNsaWdodCBvciB3 b3VsZG4ndCBiZQo+ID4gPiB2aXNpYmxlIHRvIG1vc3QgdXNlcnMsIHdlJ2xsIGhvbGQgdGhlbSBv dmVyLsKgwqBJZiB0aGUgZml4IGxvb2tzCj4gPiA+IGNvbXBsZXggYW5kIHdlJ3JlIG5vdCBzdXJl IHdlIGNhdWdodCB0aGUgcmFtaWZpY2F0aW9ucywgd2Ugb2Z0ZW4KPiA+ID4gYWRkIGl0IHRvIHRo ZSBtZXJnZSB3aW5kb3cgdHJlZSB3aXRoIGEgY2MgdG8gc3RhYmxlIGFuZCBhIG5vdGUKPiA+ID4g c2F5aW5nIHRvIHdhaXQgWCB3ZWVrcyBiZWZvcmUgYWN0dWFsbHkgYWRkaW5nIHRvIHRoZQo+ID4g PiBzdGFibGUgdHJlZSBqdXN0IHRvIG1ha2Ugc3VyZSBubyBzaWRlIGVmZmVjdHMgc2hvdyB1cCB3 aXRoIHdpZGVyCj4gPiA+IHRlc3RpbmcuwqDCoFNvLCBhcyB3aXRoIG1vc3QgdGhpbmdzLCBpdCdz IGEganVkZ21lbnQgY2FsbCBmb3IgdGhlCj4gPiA+IG1haW50YWluZXIuCj4gPiAKPiA+IEZvciBt ZSB0aGlzIGlzIHRoZSByaWdodCwgYW5kIHJlc3BvbnNpYmxlIHdheSB0byBkZWFsIHdpdGggYnVn Cj4gPiBmaXhlcy4gU2VsZi1jb250cm9sIGlzIG11Y2ggbW9yZSBlZmZpY2llbnQgdGhhbiByYW5k b20gcmVqZWN0aW9uCj4gPiBhbmQgZmF2b3JzIGEgZ29vZCBhbmFseXNpcy4KPiAKPiBJIHRoaW5r IHRoYXQgdGhlIGlkZWFsIG91dGNvbWUgb2YgdGhpcyBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLCBhdCBsZWFzdCBmb3Ig bWUsCj4gaXMgYSB0b29sIHRvIGdvIHVuZGVyIHNjcmlwdHMvIHRoYXQgd291bGQgYWxsb3cgbWFp bnRhaW5lcnMgdG8gZ2V0Cj4gc29tZSBzb3J0IG9mIChxdWFudGlmaWFibGUpIGRhdGEgdGhhdCB3 aWxsIGluZGljYXRlIGhvdyB3ZWxsIHRoZQo+IHBhdGNoIHdhcyB0ZXN0ZWQgdmlhIHRoZSByZWd1 bGFyIGNoYW5uZWxzLgo+IAo+IEF0IHdoaWNoIHBvaW50IGl0J3MgdGhlIG1haW50YWluZXIncyBq dWRnZW1lbnQgY2FsbCBvbiB3aGV0aGVyIGhlCj4gd2FudHMgdG8gZ3JhYiB0aGUgcGF0Y2ggb3Ig d2FpdCBmb3IgbW9yZSB0ZXN0cyBvciByZXZpZXdzLgo+IAo+IFRoaXMgaXMgdmVyeSBzaW1pbGFy IHRvIHdoYXQgSmFtZXMgaGFzIGRlc2NyaWJlZCwgaXQganVzdCBuZWVkcyB0bwo+IGxlYXZlIGhp cyBicmFpbiBhbmQgdHVybiBpbnRvIGNvZGUgOikKCkkgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSB0aGUgc2VudGltZW50 LCBidXQgaWYgd2UgY291bGQgc2NyaXB0IHRhc3RlLCB3ZSdkIGhhdmUKcmVwbGFjZWQgTGludXMg d2l0aCBzb21ldGhpbmcgZmFyIGxlc3MgY2FudGFua2Vyb3VzIGEgbG9uZyB0aW1lIGFnbyAuLi4K Ckl0J3MgYWxzbyBhIHNhZCBmYWN0IHRoYXQgYSBsb3Qgb2YgdGhpbmdzIHdoaWNoIGxvb2sgbGlr ZSBvYnZpb3VzIGZpeGVzCmFjdHVhbGx5IHR1cm4gb3V0IG5vdCB0byBiZSBzbyB3aXRoIGxhdGVy IHRlc3RpbmcuICBUaGlzIGlzIHdoeSB0aGUKdXNlciB2aXNpYmlsaXR5IHRlc3QgaXMgcGFyYW1v dW50LiAgSWYgYSBidWcgZml4IGhhcyBubyByZWFsIHVzZXIKdmlzaWJsZSBlZmZlY3RzLCBpdCdz IG9mdGVuIGJldHRlciB0byBkZWZlciBpdCBubyBtYXR0ZXIgaG93IG9idmlvdXMgaXQKbG9va3Ms IHdoaWNoIGlzIHdoeSB0aGUgc3RhdGljIGNvZGUgY2hlY2tlcnMgb2Z0ZW4gZ2V0IHNob3J0IHNo cmlmdApiZWZvcmUgYSBtZXJnZSB3aW5kb3cuCgpBIHNjcmlwdCBtZWFzdXJpbmcgdXNlciB2aXNp YmlsaXR5IHdvdWxkIGJlIG5pY2UsIGJ1dCBsb29rcyBhIGJpdApjb21wbGV4IC4uLgoKSmFtZXMK Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCktzdW1taXQt ZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKS3N1bW1pdC1kaXNjdXNzQGxpc3RzLmxpbnV4Zm91bmRhdGlv bi5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5saW51eGZvdW5kYXRpb24ub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v a3N1bW1pdC1kaXNjdXNzCg==