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Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:25:57 -0800 Received: from MTKMBS01N2.mediatek.inc (172.21.101.79) by MTKMBS62N2.mediatek.inc (172.29.193.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 02:15:54 -0700 Received: from MTKCAS06.mediatek.inc (172.21.101.30) by mtkmbs01n2.mediatek.inc (172.21.101.79) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:45 +0800 Received: from [172.21.84.99] (172.21.84.99) by MTKCAS06.mediatek.inc (172.21.101.73) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:45 +0800 Message-ID: <1601025346.2255.2.camel@mtksdccf07> Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 1/6] timer: kasan: record timer stack From: Walter Wu To: Thomas Gleixner Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:46 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87lfgyutf8.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> References: <20200924040335.30934-1-walter-zh.wu@mediatek.com> <87h7rm97js.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> <1601018323.28162.4.camel@mtksdccf07> <87lfgyutf8.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.2.3-0ubuntu6 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-SNTS-SMTP: 226A7A570B87CE4811210E74AF646C2772ABB9F1C3FA85FE059A86BBF585F5742000:8 X-MTK: N X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20200925_052601_300871_F3B46519 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 30.44 ) X-BeenThere: linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Marco Elver , wsd_upstream , Stephen Boyd , Alexander Potapenko , linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kasan-dev@googlegroups.com, linux-mm@kvack.org, John Stultz , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, Andrey Konovalov , Matthias Brugger , Andrey Ryabinin , Andrew Morton , Dmitry Vyukov Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "Linux-mediatek" Errors-To: linux-mediatek-bounces+linux-mediatek=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Fri, 2020-09-25 at 10:55 +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote: > Walter, > > On Fri, Sep 25 2020 at 15:18, Walter Wu wrote: > > On Thu, 2020-09-24 at 23:41 +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote: > >> > For timers it has turned out to be useful to record the stack trace > >> > of the timer init call. > >> > >> In which way? And what kind of bug does it catch which cannot be catched > >> by existing debug mechanisms already? > >> > > We only provide another debug mechanisms to debug use-after-free or > > double-free, it can be displayed together in KASAN report and have a > > chance to debug, and it doesn't need to enable existing debug mechanisms > > at the same time. then it has a chance to resolve issue. > > Again. KASAN can only cover UAF, but there are a dozen other ways to > wreck the system with wrong usage of timers which can't be caught by > KASAN. > > >> > Because if the UAF root cause is in timer init, then user can see > >> > KASAN report to get where it is registered and find out the root > >> > cause. > >> > >> What? If the UAF root cause is in timer init, then registering it after > >> using it in that very same function is pretty pointless. > >> > > See [1], the call stack shows UAF happen at dummy_timer(), it is the > > callback function and set by timer_setup(), if KASAN report shows the > > timer call stack, it should be useful for programmer. > > The report you linked to has absolutely nothing to do with a timer > related UAF. The timer callback calls kfree_skb() on something which is > already freed. So the root cause of this is NOT in timer init as you > claimed above. The timer callback is just exposing a problem in the URB > management of this driver. IOW the recording of the timer init stack is > completely useless for decoding this problem. > > >> There is a lot of handwaving how useful this is, but TBH I don't see the > >> value at all. > >> > >> DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS does a lot more than crashing on UAF. If KASAN > >> provides additional value over DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS then spell it out, > >> but just saying that you don't need to enable DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS is > >> not making an argument for that change. > >> > > We don't want to replace DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS with this patches, only > > hope to use low overhead(compare with DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS) to debug > > KASAN has lower overhead than DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS? Maybe in a different > universe. > I mean KASAN + our patch vs KASAN + DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS. The front one have the information to the original caller and help to debug. It is smaller overhead than the one behind. > That said, I'm not opposed to the change per se, but without a sensible > justification this is just pointless. > > Sprinkling kasan_foo() all over the place and claiming it's useful > without a valid example does not provide any value. > > Quite the contrary it gives the completely wrong sense what KASAN can do > and what not. > I agree your saying, so that I need to find out a use case to explain to you. Thanks Walter > Thanks, > > tglx > _______________________________________________ Linux-mediatek mailing list Linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mediatek From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.4 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6D0C4363D for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:27:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0591A20738 for ; 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Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:45 +0800 Message-ID: <1601025346.2255.2.camel@mtksdccf07> Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 1/6] timer: kasan: record timer stack From: Walter Wu To: Thomas Gleixner Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:46 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87lfgyutf8.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> References: <20200924040335.30934-1-walter-zh.wu@mediatek.com> <87h7rm97js.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> <1601018323.28162.4.camel@mtksdccf07> <87lfgyutf8.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.2.3-0ubuntu6 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-SNTS-SMTP: 226A7A570B87CE4811210E74AF646C2772ABB9F1C3FA85FE059A86BBF585F5742000:8 X-MTK: N X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20200925_052601_300871_F3B46519 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 30.44 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Marco Elver , wsd_upstream , Stephen Boyd , Alexander Potapenko , linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kasan-dev@googlegroups.com, linux-mm@kvack.org, John Stultz , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, Andrey Konovalov , Matthias Brugger , Andrey Ryabinin , Andrew Morton , Dmitry Vyukov Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Fri, 2020-09-25 at 10:55 +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote: > Walter, > > On Fri, Sep 25 2020 at 15:18, Walter Wu wrote: > > On Thu, 2020-09-24 at 23:41 +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote: > >> > For timers it has turned out to be useful to record the stack trace > >> > of the timer init call. > >> > >> In which way? And what kind of bug does it catch which cannot be catched > >> by existing debug mechanisms already? > >> > > We only provide another debug mechanisms to debug use-after-free or > > double-free, it can be displayed together in KASAN report and have a > > chance to debug, and it doesn't need to enable existing debug mechanisms > > at the same time. then it has a chance to resolve issue. > > Again. KASAN can only cover UAF, but there are a dozen other ways to > wreck the system with wrong usage of timers which can't be caught by > KASAN. > > >> > Because if the UAF root cause is in timer init, then user can see > >> > KASAN report to get where it is registered and find out the root > >> > cause. > >> > >> What? If the UAF root cause is in timer init, then registering it after > >> using it in that very same function is pretty pointless. > >> > > See [1], the call stack shows UAF happen at dummy_timer(), it is the > > callback function and set by timer_setup(), if KASAN report shows the > > timer call stack, it should be useful for programmer. > > The report you linked to has absolutely nothing to do with a timer > related UAF. The timer callback calls kfree_skb() on something which is > already freed. So the root cause of this is NOT in timer init as you > claimed above. The timer callback is just exposing a problem in the URB > management of this driver. IOW the recording of the timer init stack is > completely useless for decoding this problem. > > >> There is a lot of handwaving how useful this is, but TBH I don't see the > >> value at all. > >> > >> DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS does a lot more than crashing on UAF. If KASAN > >> provides additional value over DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS then spell it out, > >> but just saying that you don't need to enable DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS is > >> not making an argument for that change. > >> > > We don't want to replace DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS with this patches, only > > hope to use low overhead(compare with DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS) to debug > > KASAN has lower overhead than DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS? Maybe in a different > universe. > I mean KASAN + our patch vs KASAN + DEBUG_OBJECTS_TIMERS. The front one have the information to the original caller and help to debug. It is smaller overhead than the one behind. > That said, I'm not opposed to the change per se, but without a sensible > justification this is just pointless. > > Sprinkling kasan_foo() all over the place and claiming it's useful > without a valid example does not provide any value. > > Quite the contrary it gives the completely wrong sense what KASAN can do > and what not. > I agree your saying, so that I need to find out a use case to explain to you. Thanks Walter > Thanks, > > tglx > _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY,USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E47BC4363D for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:16:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF467206E5 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:15:59 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; 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Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:49 +0800 Received: from MTKCAS06.mediatek.inc (172.21.101.30) by mtkmbs01n2.mediatek.inc (172.21.101.79) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:45 +0800 Received: from [172.21.84.99] (172.21.84.99) by MTKCAS06.mediatek.inc (172.21.101.73) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:45 +0800 Message-ID: <1601025346.2255.2.camel@mtksdccf07> Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 1/6] timer: kasan: record timer stack From: Walter Wu To: Thomas Gleixner CC: Andrew Morton , John Stultz , Stephen Boyd , Marco Elver , Andrey Ryabinin , "Alexander Potapenko" , Dmitry Vyukov , "Andrey Konovalov" , Matthias Brugger , , , , , wsd_upstream , Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:15:46 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87lfgyutf8.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> References: <20200924040335.30934-1-walter-zh.wu@mediatek.com> <87h7rm97js.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> <1601018323.28162.4.camel@mtksdccf07> <87lfgyutf8.fsf@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> Content-Type: text/plain; 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