From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from ws5-mx01.kavi.com (ws5-mx01.kavi.com [34.193.7.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17018C001DF for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 07:00:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.242]) by ws5-mx01.kavi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 749C471C83 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 07:00:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4F898660F for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 07:00:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org (host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.97]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with QMQP id 4E2C79865EC; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 07:00:00 +0000 (UTC) Mailing-List: contact virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org; run by ezmlm List-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE6C9865F1 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 07:00:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kavi.com X-Alimail-AntiSpam:AC=PASS;BC=-1|-1;BR=01201311R761e4;CH=green;DM=||false|;DS=||;FP=0|-1|-1|-1|0|-1|-1|-1;HT=ay29a033018045176;MF=xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com;NM=1;PH=DS;RN=6;SR=0;TI=SMTPD_---0VotwBwd_1690959593; Message-ID: <1690959350.2261508-2-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 14:55:50 +0800 From: Xuan Zhuo To: Jason Wang Cc: "Zhu, Lingshan" , "virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org" , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Parav Pandit , Yui Washizu References: <1687243466.51691-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <1688104464.531018-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <1688111214.8488657-2-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <1688111784.0426908-3-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <7ab5978d-c503-c279-a42e-bcdbf40184d4@intel.com> <1688116457.7400494-4-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <259c7b04-58df-8085-755f-a36993556a89@intel.com> <2e176f24-293b-5be0-2928-e8ce0300e75a@intel.com> <1690425015.0990853-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <52fa9d57-c21a-0235-b8bb-614e88e25f17@intel.com> <1690438140.7109714-2-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <3f3b3a17-8199-8830-af22-94686feac956@intel.com> <1690438807.4627175-3-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <1690445274.7622454-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <1690958095.5061157-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [virtio-comment] About the plan of Admin Queue On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 14:53:28 +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:37=E2=80=AFPM Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 14:15:55 +0800, Jason Wang wro= te: > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:01=E2=80=AFPM Yui Washizu wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2023/07/27 17:28, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 4:20=E2=80=AFPM Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > > >> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:03:56 +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > >>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:23=E2=80=AFPM Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > > >>>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:17:53 +0800, "Zhu, Lingshan" wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On 7/27/2023 2:09 PM, Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 11:56:32 +0800, "Zhu, Lingshan" wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> On 7/27/2023 10:30 AM, Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jul 2023 12:29:32 +0800, "Zhu, Lingshan" wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>> On 6/30/2023 7:35 PM, Parav Pandit wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> From: virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>>>>>>>>>> open.org> On Behalf Of Zhu, Lingshan > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2023 6:33 AM > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we let the DPU notify the driver to create a new= devicer from the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> backend? > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Yes, why not. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The key point is who want to create a new device. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> DPU can come with a certain number of pre-created ADI= s, just make > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> sure the orchestration SW is aware of their device ID= s. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Cloud often need these devices to be created dynamically= , many a time after the host OS is booted. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> To be more generic, those devices to be created and conn= ected to the host regardless of the life cycle of the host. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Xuan partly explained it. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want the DPU randomly create ADIs and notify t= he driver, I > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> think we need interrupt, e.g., re-use config interrup= t. But why DPU > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wants to create and hot plug in a device to a guest? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shall the host handle that or DPU pre-create then exp= ose to baremteal > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> machines? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> In your scenario, the supervisor is on the os, which c= ontrols the DPU > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to create new devices. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> In the cloud scenario, the vendor manager is in the DP= U, and the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> entire host is for users. Of course, there are situati= ons where the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> vendor manager are in the HOST. But for bare metal mac= hines, the host > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> belongs to the customer, the vendor manager is only in= the DPU. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> So when the customers buy a new nic for the host, the = vendor manager > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> will plug a device to the host from the DPU. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I understand once a customer orders a new NIC, you want= s to present the NIC > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to the host. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> However you only owns the DPU and the customer owns the= host, that means > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> this creation and hot plug must be transparent to the h= ost and there may not be > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a host driver help handling an interrupt/probe. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> That is ok. when driver is loaded, it would query about = its child devices and probe it, if we strictly want to follow SIOV model. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> However this is not PCI which has a tree/switch and can= enumerate devices to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the host by spanning the device across the PCI hierarch= y. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Those enumeration is triggered by the parent PCI device = and pci bridge and switch will also discover it. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> To address an ADI, there is only a device_id. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> SIOV device must have a unique identifier at PCI bus lev= el for sure. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I cannot speak more about it in this forum due to other = logistics issue. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> But assume that there is PCI level unique identifier for= SIOV device that switches on the path will learn about. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> So, do you mind share how your DPU offload the device m= odel? What kind of > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> device your DPU provide to the host? Lets see whether D= PU can mediate this by > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> its own? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> It is a virtio nic, blk and other virtio devices for us. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> A DPU hotplugs a device, host side either gets interrupt= or later gets to know about it when explicitly queries. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> There is no mediation per say here, it is just a dpu bas= ed SIOV device like a regular PF. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> For non virtio DPU device, I implemented them in Linux f= or dpus 2 years ago. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> You might find a Linux reference model useful at [1]. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> A usage model already exists in one OS and in use for no= n virtio devices. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> This certainly works without SIOV unique PCI device iden= tifiers, because DPU (non-host) managed SIOV device spec still does not exi= st. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> For virtio, I think we should wait for this piece to be = defined and leverage that, instead of virtio tc creating its own. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/Mellanox/scalablefunctions/wiki > > > > >>>>>>>>> well I see SF facing the similar challenge, I can add a c= ommand for the > > > > >>>>>>>>> driver to query all existing SIOV ADIs of a device, > > > > >>>>>>>>> and the device return ADIs id and status. Looks good? and= work for you > > > > >>>>>>>>> @Xuan? > > > > >>>>>>>> Could I have your plan for this? > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> If you do not mind, I'd like to add a command to query VF'= s info. Such > > > > >>>>>>>> as mac, ip, etc. > > > > >>>>>>> I think the query commands for SIOV is a little more comple= x, e.g., > > > > >>>>>>> need to report device type and its scale(e.g., features, mq= ). > > > > >>>>>>> There can be thousands of SIOV ADIs and we don't want outpu= t flood. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> We have discussed implementation a config interrupt to repo= rt new > > > > >>>>>>> created / deleted > > > > >>>>>>> ADIs on the DPU side, therefore there must be a cap contain= s related > > > > >>>>>>> information, > > > > >>>>>>> my rough approach of the process is: > > > > >>>>>>> 1) a cap contains the total number of existing ADIs and the= max dev id > > > > >>>>>>> 2) driver queries detailed information of a certain ADI or = a bunch of > > > > >>>>>>> ADIs in a [dev_id....dev_id2] range. > > > > >>>>>> Yes, Admin Queue can obtain the info of the specific one or = more devices. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I am not sure whether a NIC stores its IP > > > > >>>>>> IP is the other topic. I want the Admin Queue manage the swi= tch. > > > > >>>>>> So the switch know about the IP of every device, and the > > > > >>>>>> Admin Queue will has the ability to config the IP of the dev= ice inside the > > > > >>>>>> switch. > > > > >>>>> DPU onboard switch? OVS? Does it beyond virtio spec? > > > > >>>> YES. > > > > >>> Adding Washizu. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> We can have a switch/dpa defined in the networking device for s= ure. > > > > >> Yes, I think we should introduce that for the sr-iov. Or for oth= er. > > > > > This should be a general one as a switch should be transport inde= pendent. > > > > > > > > > >> I would like to know who is doing this? > > > > > Washizu, could you confirm if you want to do this or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this mean adding a switch definition to the virtio spec? > > > > > > > > > > > > If so, it will be necessary for the implementation of my plan, > > > > > > > > but it may take time (probably several months?) to get started, > > > > > > > > as I'm currently working on another task (virtio-net SR-IOV feature= in > > > > qemu). > > > > > > > > Anyone is welcome to work on adding the switch definition in the me= antime, > > > > > > > > it's completely fine with me. > > > > > > > > I think I'll work on that if no one has finished the work. > > > > > > Ok, great, I think we need to start this by considering reusing one of > > > the existing DPA spec. (For example, ofdpa? or any other?) > > > > We have a need on this area. I want to start this work now. > > > > Could you give me the link of the spec? > > I'm not sure this is the best one, we can hear from others. I mention > it since it has an emulation code that is done in Qemu (rocker > switch). > > The spec is: > > https://docs.broadcom.com/doc/12378911 OK. I will study it. But I think we can start with a simple model. For virtio-n= et, we don't need a full-featured switch. I would mainly consider the SR-IOV ca= se. Thanks. > > (not sure this is the recent one though). > > Thanks > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Another question, @Jason are you referring to a new device type = or a > > > > >> new virtio-net feature. > > > > > Extending virtio-net should be fine, did you see any issues for t= his? > > > > > > > > > >>>> For SIOV, I think this is MUST. > > > > >>> A learning bridge would be fine as a starter. It's better not to > > > > >>> couple new scalable capability with any device specific feature= s. > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Maybe you have one simple implementation. > > > > >>>> But you have to solve the IP steering. So admin queue should h= as the ability > > > > >>>> to config the IP steering. > > > > >>> I think not. Those L2/LN tables/filters are networking specific. > > > > >> Let us assume that there is a switch/bridge firstly. > > > > >> The VFs may be passed to different VMs. > > > > >> > > > > >> I also think this is the networking specific. But I want to conf= ig > > > > >> the ip for every vf from the pf. > > > > > What do you mean by ip here (e.g who is the user for this ip?) > > > > > > > > > >> Because the user of the vf may be unreliable. > > > > >> We need a manager to config the ip for every vf. > > > > > Did you mean you're using a tunnel or not? > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>> Control virtqueue is better than admin virtqueue here. > > > > >> by cq? > > > > >> > > > > >> What case? > > > > > We've already used control virtqueue for steering. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > >> Thanks. > > > > >> > > > > >>> Thanks > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Thanks. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Thanks. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks > > > > >>>>>>>> Thanks. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> This publicly archived list offers a means to provide inpu= t to the > > > > >>>>>>>> OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License te= rms and > > > > >>>>>>>> to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is requ= ired > > > > >>>>>>>> before posting. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.o= rg > > > > >>>>>>>> List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > >>>>>>>> List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio= -comment/ > > > > >>>>>>>> Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedb= ack_license.pdf > > > > >>>>>>>> List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guide= lines/mailing-lists > > > > >>>>>>>> Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > > > > >>>>>>>> Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input t= o the > > > > >>>>> OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms= and > > > > >>>>> to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > > > > >>>>> before posting. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > >>>>> Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > >>>>> List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > >>>>> List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-co= mment/ > > > > >>>>> Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback= _license.pdf > > > > >>>>> List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelin= es/mailing-lists > > > > >>>>> Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > > > > >>>>> Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to= the > > > > >>>> OASIS Virtual I/O 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