From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Spam Subject: Re: silent semantic changes with reiser4 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:59:24 +0200 Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Message-ID: <1714037053.20040826155924@tnonline.net> References: <1453776111.20040826131547@tnonline.net> Reply-To: Spam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: In-Reply-To: List-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Rik van Riel Cc: Andrew Morton , wichert@wiggy.net, jra@samba.org, torvalds@osdl.org, reiser@namesys.com, hch@lst.de, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, flx@namesys.com, reiserfs-list@namesys.com > On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Spam wrote: >> Yes, JPEG, TIFF and PNG files for example. But, if you modify any of >> these with an application that doesn't support the extensions then >> you will loose them. > OK, so we've got a choice. > Either we will lose the extensions when modifying the file > with an unaware program, or you lose the extensions when > copying (or restoring from backup) using an unaware program. > Personally I'd prefer to keep the file intact when not > modifying it... Backup to me is a special case, not simply a copy of files, but also retaining all the extra data, info, attributes, etc, that comes with the file. Enabling support to have all of this extra stuff below the application level it will be possible to retain everything even though applications do not support them. Backup tools, however, must know about these new features to be able to backup them. And so will every tool that directly accesses the filesystem instead of using the OS API for it. And from I learned in an earlier message, tools like cp actually work on the fs level and themselves move the data to the new file instead of letting the OS handle it. This seem to me as it could be dangerous and could also prevent any kind of enhancements to the FS unless every tool like cp is patched. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S268849AbUHZN4x (ORCPT ); Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:56:53 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S268881AbUHZN4x (ORCPT ); Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:56:53 -0400 Received: from c002781a.fit.bostream.se ([217.215.235.8]:62094 "EHLO mail.tnonline.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S268849AbUHZN43 (ORCPT ); Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:56:29 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:59:24 +0200 From: Spam Reply-To: Spam X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1714037053.20040826155924@tnonline.net> To: Rik van Riel CC: Andrew Morton , wichert@wiggy.net, jra@samba.org, torvalds@osdl.org, , , , , , Subject: Re: silent semantic changes with reiser4 In-Reply-To: References: <1453776111.20040826131547@tnonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Spam wrote: >> Yes, JPEG, TIFF and PNG files for example. But, if you modify any of >> these with an application that doesn't support the extensions then >> you will loose them. > OK, so we've got a choice. > Either we will lose the extensions when modifying the file > with an unaware program, or you lose the extensions when > copying (or restoring from backup) using an unaware program. > Personally I'd prefer to keep the file intact when not > modifying it... Backup to me is a special case, not simply a copy of files, but also retaining all the extra data, info, attributes, etc, that comes with the file. Enabling support to have all of this extra stuff below the application level it will be possible to retain everything even though applications do not support them. Backup tools, however, must know about these new features to be able to backup them. And so will every tool that directly accesses the filesystem instead of using the OS API for it. And from I learned in an earlier message, tools like cp actually work on the fs level and themselves move the data to the new file instead of letting the OS handle it. This seem to me as it could be dangerous and could also prevent any kind of enhancements to the FS unless every tool like cp is patched.