From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC194CA9EAF for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 22:33:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B320F21872 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 22:33:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1731694AbfJXWdP convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Thu, 24 Oct 2019 18:33:15 -0400 Received: from lithops.sigma-star.at ([195.201.40.130]:38794 "EHLO lithops.sigma-star.at" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1731152AbfJXWdO (ORCPT ); Thu, 24 Oct 2019 18:33:14 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lithops.sigma-star.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB08D616210E; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 00:33:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lithops.sigma-star.at ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (lithops.sigma-star.at [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id nPSmY1q9GW68; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 00:33:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lithops.sigma-star.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A5D60632C6; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 00:33:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lithops.sigma-star.at ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (lithops.sigma-star.at [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id yLpP1SrFhWoP; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 00:33:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lithops.sigma-star.at (lithops.sigma-star.at [195.201.40.130]) by lithops.sigma-star.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38961616210E; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 00:33:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 00:33:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Richard Weinberger To: Chris Murphy Cc: Pali =?utf-8?Q?Roh=C3=A1r?= , linux-fsdevel Message-ID: <1758125728.38509.1571956392152.JavaMail.zimbra@nod.at> In-Reply-To: References: <20191023171611.qfcwfce2roe3k3qw@pali> <854944926.38488.1571955377425.JavaMail.zimbra@nod.at> Subject: Re: Is rename(2) atomic on FAT? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Originating-IP: [195.201.40.130] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.8.12_GA_3807 (ZimbraWebClient - FF60 (Linux)/8.8.12_GA_3809) Thread-Topic: Is rename(2) atomic on FAT? Thread-Index: U9uKUa4wcty9oxWfGZmqOkL7kbAJ2A== Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----- >> U-boot, for example. Of course it does not so for any filesystem, but whe= > re >> it is needed and makes sense. > > Really? uboot does journal replay on ext3/4? I think at this point the > most common file system on Linux distros is unquestionably ext4, and > the most common bootloader is GRUB and for sure GRUB is no doing > journal replay on anything, including ext4. For ext4 it does a replay when you start to write to it. > Yeah that's got its own difficulties, including the way distro build > systems work. I'm not opposed to it, but it's a practical barrier to > adoption. I'd almost say it's easier to make Btrfs $BOOT compulsory, > make static ESP compulsory, and voila! I really don't get your point. I thought you are designing a "sane" system which can tolerate powercuts down an update. Why care about distros? The approach with Linux being a "bootloader" is common for embedded/secure systems. Thanks, //richard