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From: tridge@samba.org
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	OGAWA Hirofumi <hirofumi@mail.parknet.co.jp>,
	john.lanza@linux.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Dave Kleikamp <shaggy@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Steve French <sfrench@us.ibm.com>, Mingming Cao <cmm@us.ibm.com>,
	Paul McKenney <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Added CONFIG_VFAT_FS_DUALNAMES option
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:11:55 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <19019.17531.349844.201397@samba.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090701110934.2f43591c@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>

Hi Alan,

 > > What happens on collision? With 60000 entries in directory, there will
 > > be 50% chance of collision. BAD.
 > 
 > Far more surely - its a birthday paradox.

If you want to do it accurately, the maximum number of long filenames
in a VFAT directory is actually 32767. (it isn't 65536, as each long
filename consumes at least two 8.3 entries, plus you lose the . and
.. entries).

With the patch I've posted there are 30 bits of randomness in each
entry. You could do an accurate binomial expansion to get the exact
probability, but a very good approximation using exponentiation comes
out as a 39.3% chance of a single duplicate appearing in a directory
that is fully populated.

As I mentioned to Pavel, this isn't the whole story though. To cause
the bluescreen the duplicate entries need to be accessed by WindowsXP
in quick succession in a particular pattern. This lowers the
probability a lot. Exactly how much is hard to estimate, but
experiments I've done with deliberately higher probabilities (ie. less
bits of randomness) show that the probability of the bluescreen is
_very_ low.

 > Agreed 100%. I'm also not sure it should be called "vfat" when operating
 > in this mode as it's not vfat any more - it needs a new name.

If the code differed significantly between the two implementations I'd
probably agree, but as the two are extremely close I think maintaining
a separate filesystem isn't worth it.

Cheers, Tridge

  reply	other threads:[~2009-07-01 11:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 212+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-06-26 19:19 [PATCH] Added CONFIG_VFAT_FS_DUALNAMES option tridge
2009-06-26 21:40 ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-06-26 22:21   ` tridge
2009-06-27  1:48     ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-06-27 17:26       ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-06-27  1:56 ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-06-27 17:21 ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-06-28  2:59   ` tridge
2009-06-28 21:57     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-06-28 22:02       ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-06-28 22:05         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-06-29  1:23       ` tridge
2009-06-28  1:54 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-28  2:19   ` tridge
2009-06-28  4:10     ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-28  5:38       ` tridge
2009-06-28  6:25         ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-06-28 19:51           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-28 20:13             ` James Bottomley
2009-06-28 20:45               ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-28 21:45                 ` James Bottomley
2009-06-28 21:28             ` tridge
2009-06-29  1:30           ` tridge
2009-06-29 22:18             ` Greg KH
2009-06-29 22:42               ` tridge
2009-06-29 22:52                 ` Greg KH
2009-06-29 23:36                 ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-06-29 23:51                   ` tridge
2009-06-30  0:55                     ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-06-30  6:31 ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-01 10:09   ` Alan Cox
2009-07-01 11:11     ` tridge [this message]
2009-07-01 11:34       ` Alan Cox
2009-07-01 10:49   ` Rusty Russell
2009-07-01 11:25     ` Alan Cox
2009-07-01 14:05       ` Theodore Tso
2009-07-01 14:17         ` Alan Cox
2009-07-02  1:42           ` tridge
2009-07-02 10:33             ` Alan Cox
2009-07-02 12:43               ` tridge
2009-07-02 21:49           ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-06 19:57           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-01 16:18         ` Stefan Richter
2009-07-01 16:18           ` Stefan Richter
2009-07-02 23:17         ` CONFIG_VFAT_FS_DUALNAMES regression Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-02 23:17           ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-02 23:37           ` tridge
2009-07-03  0:11             ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  0:11               ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  0:25               ` tridge
2009-07-03  1:10                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  1:10                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  1:26                   ` tridge
2009-07-03  1:58                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-11  0:14                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-02 23:46           ` CONFIG_VFAT_FS_DUALNAMES regressions Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-02 23:46             ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  0:14             ` tridge
2009-07-03  0:58               ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-07-03  1:11                 ` tridge
2009-07-03  1:50                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  1:50                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  1:59                     ` tridge
2009-07-03  2:09                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  2:09                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  3:25                         ` tridge
2009-07-03  6:46                           ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-07-03  9:40                           ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03  9:40                             ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-03 12:24                             ` tridge
2009-07-04  3:09                               ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-07-06 11:40                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-06 13:05                                 ` tridge
2009-07-06 16:17                                   ` David Newall
2009-07-06 16:17                                     ` David Newall
2009-07-06 19:33                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-06 18:55                                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-06 20:26                                     ` tridge
2009-07-06 20:42                                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-06 20:42                                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-08  7:31                                         ` tridge
2009-07-06 20:36                                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-06 20:58                                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-06 21:08                                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-06 22:24                                           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-07  9:36                                             ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-07  0:21                                       ` tridge
2009-07-07 21:56                                         ` Martin Steigerwald
2009-07-07 22:09                                           ` Martin Steigerwald
2009-07-08  3:12                                           ` tridge
2009-07-08 10:04                                             ` Alan Cox
2009-07-08 10:48                                               ` tridge
2009-07-08 12:02                                                 ` Alan Cox
2009-07-08 13:02                                                   ` tridge
2009-07-08 13:25                                                     ` Alan Cox
2009-07-09  1:20                                                       ` tridge
2009-07-09  9:42                                                         ` Alan Cox
2009-07-09 13:59                                                           ` James Bottomley
2009-07-09 14:10                                                             ` Alan Cox
2009-07-09 15:25                                                               ` Theodore Tso
2009-07-09 17:15                                                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-07-09 20:57                                                                   ` David Newall
2009-07-09 22:23                                                                     ` Martin Steigerwald
2009-07-10  1:45                                                                       ` David Newall
2009-07-10 18:49                                                                         ` Martin Steigerwald
2009-07-10 19:31                                                                           ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-07-10 20:40                                                                             ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2009-07-12 11:21                                                                               ` Jörn Engel
2009-07-12 11:21                                                                                 ` Jörn Engel
2009-07-12 11:27                                                                                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-12 11:27                                                                                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-13 22:20                                                                                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-13 22:20                                                                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-13 22:32                                                                                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-10 21:14                                                                             ` Alan Cox
2009-07-12  8:52                                                                           ` David Newall
2009-07-10  0:09                                                                 ` Alan Cox
2009-07-08 12:23                                                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-08 15:27                                               ` James Bottomley
2009-07-08 15:37                                                 ` Alan Cox
2009-07-08 16:06                                                   ` James Bottomley
2009-07-08 16:18                                                     ` Alan Cox
2009-07-09  4:25                                                       ` tridge
2009-07-09  5:27                                                         ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-07-09  7:21                                                           ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-09  7:34                                                             ` David Newall
2009-07-09  9:51                                                         ` Alan Cox
2009-07-09  4:53                                                       ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-07-09  9:53                                                         ` Alan Cox
2009-07-12 19:39                                                         ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-07-21  3:37                                                           ` tridge
2009-07-21  9:16                                                             ` Boaz Harrosh
2009-07-21 10:31                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-21 13:24                                                                 ` tridge
2009-07-21 15:08                                                                   ` John Lanza
2009-07-21 15:08                                                                     ` John Lanza
2009-07-21 19:36                                                                     ` John Lanza
2009-07-21 19:36                                                                       ` John Lanza
2009-07-21 21:37                                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-21 22:38                                                                     ` tridge
2009-07-21 10:44                                                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-21 13:04                                                               ` tridge
2009-07-21 15:06                                                                 ` John Lanza
2009-07-21 19:38                                                                   ` John Lanza
2009-07-21 19:38                                                                     ` John Lanza
2009-07-21 10:31                                                             ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-21 13:19                                                               ` tridge
2009-08-08 12:19                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-08 11:39                                             ` Martin Steigerwald
2009-07-08 13:53                                               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-08 17:12                                                 ` Jeremy Allison
2009-07-09  3:23                                               ` tridge
2009-07-09 13:34                                                 ` Martin Steigerwald
2009-07-09  4:13                                               ` tridge
2009-07-09 19:47                                                 ` Martin Steigerwald
2009-07-10  7:36                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-10 21:12                                                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-10 21:28                                                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-11  2:03                                                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-07 19:51                                   ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-08  7:42                                     ` tridge
2009-07-08 10:27                                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-09  2:23                                         ` tridge
2009-07-09  8:24                                           ` Jan Engelhardt
2009-07-10  7:35                                       ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-06 20:04                               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-08  7:30                                 ` tridge
2009-07-10 21:44                                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-02  0:34       ` [PATCH] Added CONFIG_VFAT_FS_DUALNAMES option Rusty Russell
2009-07-02 21:46     ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-02 22:06       ` tridge
2009-07-02 22:33         ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-02 22:41           ` tridge
2009-07-02 22:44             ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-02 23:59               ` tridge
2009-07-08  9:21                 ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-08 14:25                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2009-07-08 21:42                     ` tridge
2009-07-08 22:14                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2009-07-08 23:59                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2009-07-08 16:46                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-07-03  0:03               ` Rusty Russell
2009-07-02 23:55       ` Rusty Russell
2009-07-01 10:50   ` tridge
2009-07-01 11:31     ` Alan Cox
2009-07-01 13:16       ` tridge
2009-07-01 13:38         ` Alan Cox
2009-07-01 14:02           ` tridge
2009-07-01 14:41             ` Alan Cox
2009-07-02  4:04               ` tridge
2009-07-02 10:32                 ` Alan Cox
2009-07-02 12:38                   ` tridge
2009-07-02 16:56                     ` Alan Cox
2009-07-03  2:50                       ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-07-02 14:56                   ` James Bottomley
2009-07-02 15:27                     ` Theodore Tso
2009-07-02 18:12                     ` Alan Cox
2009-07-02 21:25                       ` James Bottomley
2009-07-01 11:48     ` Boaz Harrosh
2009-07-01 12:28       ` tridge
2009-07-01 15:44       ` James Bottomley
2009-07-02 22:03         ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-06 20:41         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-07 10:02           ` Boaz Harrosh
2009-07-07 11:25             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-07-07 11:48               ` Boaz Harrosh
2009-07-07 11:50                 ` tridge
2009-07-02 22:00     ` Pavel Machek
2009-07-02 22:23       ` tridge
2009-07-02 22:41         ` Pavel Machek
     [not found] <4bbed3f70907082014t643209eaw5fc7cd7297f7af78@mail.gmail.com>
2009-07-09 13:16 ` John Lanza
2009-07-09 13:16   ` John Lanza

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