From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA04087 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:03:02 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA77097 for linux-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:02:00 -0800 (PST) mail_from (owner-linux@relay.engr.sgi.com) Received: from sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA10703; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:01:56 -0800 (PST) mail_from (job@piquin.uchicago.edu) Received: from piquin.uchicago.edu (piquin.uchicago.edu [128.135.132.47]) by sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980304.SGI-aspam: SGI does not authorize the use of its proprietary systems or networks for unsolicited or bulk email from the Internet.) via ESMTP id TAA07073; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:01:54 -0800 (PST) mail_from (job@piquin.uchicago.edu) Received: from piquin.uchicago.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by piquin.uchicago.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA14922; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:01:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901200301.VAA14922@piquin.uchicago.edu> To: offer@morgaine.engr.sgi.com (Richard Offer) cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ellidz@eridu.uchicago.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: linus.linux.sgi.com] In-Reply-To: Message from offer@morgaine.engr.sgi.com (Richard Offer) of "Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:28:50 PST." <9901191828.ZM20761@morgaine.engr.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:01:49 -0600 From: job bogan Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Your message dated: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:28:50 PST >Well, I couldn't see anything faster than 60ns on Kingstons store. >http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/kepler/specs.asp 100MHz is the bus speed. to meet that, you need ~5-6ns access times. Kingston does list 100MHz memory. >I'd guess that their 10ns is a misprint as its cheap and listed in the PC-66 >section. look in the PC100 section. that's the Lintel world acronym for 100MHz capable ram. And, yes, it's cheap. That's the point. =) If you are using ECC, the worst i'll see is a hung machine. and judging by previous SGI prices, i can buy twice as much 3rd party ram as SGI ram. >Isn't 100Mhz and 50ns a measure of two different things ? This is meant as a >serious question, as I don't know. But, I'd guess that one is the refresh and >one the time to access ? nope. see the stuff above. If you want more info, bug me off the list. >* I might buy some if they are competitive w/ plain old white Linux boxes. > >How do you measure 'competitive' ? For me, they aren't; for my next-cubicle >neighbour they would be. Luckily we don't live in a one size >(hardware/software) fits all world. I know, it's a tough question. Competative, in my realm, is floating point performance based. Specificly, Big (100's of MB) matrix manipulations. Lately, generic PCs and sun E450's have won our $. Both well outperform SGIs for the cost. (both O2000 or O200 based. we have some of each around...) NT as the only OS for the SGI 540/320 means they are not competitive. We cannot dedicate, and waste, that much CPU to one person's desktop. If NT had a good remote user (ssh, telnet, hell a remote queuing system) interface, we might look at them. The lack of true multi-user and non-console interfaces in NT just takes these SGIs off the chart until linux runs on them. And once it's there, i see no reason to buy them unless i can get the Video Performance out of them. (unless, perhaps, they clean up on raw cpu due to a cleaned up system bus.) i've never been the world's biggest SGI/Irix fan. But - for my env., and most of the Academic world, i just don't see these as viable machines until Linux or Irix runs on them. egh... you may be able to get the CAD/CAM market back, but i don't see us buying more SGIs soon. Anyhow, this is offtopic now. job -- John Bogan Director of Computing 773-702-2588 James Franck Institute 5640 South Ellis Ave University of Chicago Chicago, Il 60637 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Message-ID: <199901200301.VAA14922@piquin.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: [Fwd: linus.linux.sgi.com] In-Reply-To: Message from offer@morgaine.engr.sgi.com (Richard Offer) of "Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:28:50 PST." <9901191828.ZM20761@morgaine.engr.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:01:49 -0600 From: job bogan Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com To: Richard Offer Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ellidz@eridu.uchicago.edu Message-ID: <19990120030149.NdJsxxFPpXShg9lguyfgpyO61lyPOoMxlt5ax0Uu_hU@z> Your message dated: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:28:50 PST >Well, I couldn't see anything faster than 60ns on Kingstons store. >http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/kepler/specs.asp 100MHz is the bus speed. to meet that, you need ~5-6ns access times. Kingston does list 100MHz memory. >I'd guess that their 10ns is a misprint as its cheap and listed in the PC-66 >section. look in the PC100 section. that's the Lintel world acronym for 100MHz capable ram. And, yes, it's cheap. That's the point. =) If you are using ECC, the worst i'll see is a hung machine. and judging by previous SGI prices, i can buy twice as much 3rd party ram as SGI ram. >Isn't 100Mhz and 50ns a measure of two different things ? This is meant as a >serious question, as I don't know. But, I'd guess that one is the refresh and >one the time to access ? nope. see the stuff above. If you want more info, bug me off the list. >* I might buy some if they are competitive w/ plain old white Linux boxes. > >How do you measure 'competitive' ? For me, they aren't; for my next-cubicle >neighbour they would be. Luckily we don't live in a one size >(hardware/software) fits all world. I know, it's a tough question. Competative, in my realm, is floating point performance based. Specificly, Big (100's of MB) matrix manipulations. Lately, generic PCs and sun E450's have won our $. Both well outperform SGIs for the cost. (both O2000 or O200 based. we have some of each around...) NT as the only OS for the SGI 540/320 means they are not competitive. We cannot dedicate, and waste, that much CPU to one person's desktop. If NT had a good remote user (ssh, telnet, hell a remote queuing system) interface, we might look at them. The lack of true multi-user and non-console interfaces in NT just takes these SGIs off the chart until linux runs on them. And once it's there, i see no reason to buy them unless i can get the Video Performance out of them. (unless, perhaps, they clean up on raw cpu due to a cleaned up system bus.) i've never been the world's biggest SGI/Irix fan. But - for my env., and most of the Academic world, i just don't see these as viable machines until Linux or Irix runs on them. egh... you may be able to get the CAD/CAM market back, but i don't see us buying more SGIs soon. Anyhow, this is offtopic now. job -- John Bogan Director of Computing 773-702-2588 James Franck Institute 5640 South Ellis Ave University of Chicago Chicago, Il 60637