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From: Andreas Bombe <bombe@informatik.tu-muenchen.de>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Journaling pointless with today's hard disks?
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:35:18 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20011128003518.A3895@storm.local> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200111270123.BAA02056@mauve.demon.co.uk> <0111261800340R.02001@localhost.localdomain> <9tuugv$f72$1@cesium.transmeta.com> <0111261919540W.02001@localhost.localdomain>
In-Reply-To: <0111261919540W.02001@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 07:19:54PM -0500, Rob Landley wrote:
> Now a journal track that's next to where the head parks could combine the 
> "park" sweep with that one seek, and presumably be spring powered and hence 
> save capacitor power.  But I'm not 100% certain it would be worth it.

When time if of essence it should be worth it (drive makers will use the
smallest possible capacitor, of course).  Given that current 7200 RPM
disks have marketed seek times of 8 or 9 ms worst case seeks can be much
longer.

That 8ms is average and likely read seeks are weighted higher than write
seeks.  Writes have to be exact, but reads can be seeked sloppier
(without waiting for the head to stop oscillating after braking) and
error correction will take care of the rest.  This would gives us what
in worst case?  15ms (just a guess)?

A journal track could be near parking track and have directly adjacent
tracks left free to allow for slightly sloppier/faster seeking.  An
expert could probably tell us whether this is complete BS or even
feasible.

> (Are 
> normal with-power-on seeks towards the park area powered by the spring, or 
> the... I keep wanting to say "stepper motor" but I don't think those are what 
> drives use anymore, are they?  Sigh...)

A simple spring is too slow, I guess.  Also, it should not be so hard
that it would slow down seeks against the spring.

-- 
Andreas Bombe <bombe@informatik.tu-muenchen.de>    DSA key 0x04880A44

  reply	other threads:[~2001-11-27 23:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-11-24 13:03 Journaling pointless with today's hard disks? Florian Weimer
2001-11-24 13:40 ` Rik van Riel
2001-11-24 16:36   ` Phil Howard
2001-11-24 17:19     ` Charles Marslett
2001-11-24 17:31     ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-24 17:41     ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-24 19:20       ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-24 19:29         ` Rik van Riel
2001-11-24 22:51           ` John Alvord
2001-11-24 23:41             ` Phil Howard
2001-11-25  0:24               ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-25  0:53                 ` Phil Howard
2001-11-25  1:25                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-25  1:44                   ` Sven.Riedel
2001-11-24 22:28         ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-25  4:49           ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-24 23:04         ` Pedro M. Rodrigues
2001-11-24 23:23         ` Stephen Satchell
2001-11-24 23:29           ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-26 18:05             ` Steve Brueggeman
2001-11-26 23:49               ` Martin Eriksson
2001-11-27  0:06                 ` Andreas Dilger
2001-11-27  0:16                   ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-27  7:38                     ` Andreas Dilger
2001-11-27 11:48                       ` Ville Herva
2001-11-27  0:18                 ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-11-27  1:01                   ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-27  1:33                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27  1:57                   ` Steve Underwood
2001-11-27  5:04                   ` Stephen Satchell
2001-11-25 12:30         ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-25 15:04           ` Barry K. Nathan
2001-11-25 16:31             ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27  2:39               ` Pavel Machek
2001-12-03 10:23                 ` Matthias Andree
     [not found]         ` <mailman.1006644421.6553.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2001-11-25  4:20           ` Pete Zaitcev
2001-11-25 13:52           ` Pedro M. Rodrigues
2001-11-25  9:14 ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-11-25 22:55   ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-26 16:59   ` Rob Landley
2001-11-26 20:30     ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-26 20:35       ` Rob Landley
2001-11-26 23:59         ` Andreas Dilger
2001-11-27  0:24           ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27  0:52             ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27  1:11               ` Andrew Morton
2001-11-27  1:15                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27 16:59                   ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27 16:56               ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27  1:23         ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-26 23:00           ` Rob Landley
2001-11-27  2:41             ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27  0:19               ` Rob Landley
2001-11-27 23:35                 ` Andreas Bombe [this message]
2001-11-28 14:32                   ` Rob Landley
2001-11-27  3:39             ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-27  7:03         ` Ville Herva
2001-11-27 16:50         ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27 20:31           ` Rob Landley
2001-11-28 18:43             ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-28 18:46               ` Rob Landley
2001-11-28 22:19                 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-29 22:21                   ` Pavel Machek
2001-12-01 10:55                     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2001-12-02  0:08                     ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-03 20:04                       ` Pavel Machek
2001-11-26 20:53     ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-11-26 21:18       ` Journaling pointless with today's hard disks? [wandering OT] Rob Landley
2001-11-27  0:32       ` Journaling pointless with today's hard disks? H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27 16:39     ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27 17:42       ` Martin Eriksson
2001-11-28 16:35         ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-26 17:14 ` Steve Brueggeman
2001-11-26 20:36   ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-26 21:14     ` Steve Brueggeman
2001-11-26 21:36       ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-27 16:36         ` Steve Brueggeman
2001-11-27 20:04           ` Bill Davidsen
2001-11-27 21:28         ` Wayne Whitney
2001-11-27 21:52           ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-28 11:53             ` Pedro M. Rodrigues
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-11-25  1:20 dnu478nt5w@mailexpire.com
2001-11-28 14:36 Galappatti, Kishantha
2001-11-28 17:22 David Balazic
2001-11-28 23:25 Frank de Lange
2001-11-29  1:52 ` Matthias Andree

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