From: "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@thyrsus.com>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@mandrakesoft.com>,
Dave Jones <davej@suse.de>,
Arjan van de Ven <arjan@pc1-camc5-0-cust78.cam.cable.ntl.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Disgusted with kbuild developers
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:10:18 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020216091018.I23546@thyrsus.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3C6DE6A1.2B5717BE@mandrakesoft.com> <E16c44r-000670-00@the-village.bc.nu>
In-Reply-To: <E16c44r-000670-00@the-village.bc.nu>; from alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk on Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:36:29PM +0000
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>:
> The graph tells you that. The only interesting case I could find is the
> negation one - some rules are A conflicts with B which makes the UI side
> much more fun
That's right. This is a CML2 require/prohibit construct. CML1 cannot
express this, and it's essential for side-effect forcing to work. Jeff's
observation about being tempted to introduce a `require' turns out actually
to be equivalent once you see how both problems generalize.
You can't deduce these constraints from graph analysis, because they're
not implicit in the if/then tree structure that is the only thing CML1
knows about.
Jeff and Alan have now almost caught up to where I was two years ago when
I realized the CMl1 formalism was inadequate.
This is going in the FAQ.
--
<a href="http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-02-16 14:37 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 157+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-02-15 16:55 Disgusted with kbuild developers Jeff Garzik
2002-02-15 16:51 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 17:25 ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 19:01 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 17:25 ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-15 17:13 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 17:27 ` Tom Rini
2002-02-15 17:31 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-15 17:25 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 18:24 ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-15 18:55 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 19:29 ` Arjan van de Ven
2002-02-15 19:14 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 19:58 ` Arjan van de Ven
2002-02-15 19:54 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 20:38 ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 20:45 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 8:37 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-15 21:34 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 20:59 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 21:47 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 21:46 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:40 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 22:08 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:52 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 9:50 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-02-16 4:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 7:41 ` Gerd Knorr
2002-02-16 12:36 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 14:10 ` Eric S. Raymond [this message]
2002-02-15 22:44 ` Rob Landley
2002-02-19 8:04 ` Pavel Machek
2002-02-19 21:13 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:08 ` Robert Love
2002-02-15 22:28 ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 22:11 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 23:07 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 15:54 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:38 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 16:22 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:52 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 17:10 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 16:50 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 5:05 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 11:23 ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-16 14:52 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 15:36 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 15:52 ` Possible breakthrough in the CML2 logjam? Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:34 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 16:57 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 17:29 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 17:32 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 19:01 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-17 0:57 ` Felix von Leitner
2002-02-20 9:07 ` 'revolting' overemphasizes personal beliefs && religion bert hubert
2002-02-16 17:37 ` Possible breakthrough in the CML2 logjam? Larry McVoy
2002-02-16 17:16 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 17:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 17:50 ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-18 10:06 ` Rogier Wolff
2002-02-15 20:42 ` Disgusted with kbuild developers Larry McVoy
2002-02-15 20:39 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 21:15 ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 20:58 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 21:49 ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 22:04 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:41 ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 23:26 ` Rob Landley
2002-02-16 6:35 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 18:20 ` Rob Landley
2002-02-16 9:21 ` David Woodhouse
2002-02-16 13:57 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 15:21 ` Adam Kropelin
2002-02-16 14:51 ` David Woodhouse
2002-02-16 15:56 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 5:12 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-15 22:09 ` Richard Gooch
2002-02-15 21:50 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 22:27 ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 22:19 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 0:15 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-16 16:00 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:53 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-17 0:05 ` Felix von Leitner
2002-02-15 22:38 ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-15 22:22 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-15 23:23 ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-15 23:29 ` Dave Jones
2002-02-15 23:37 ` David Lang
2002-02-16 2:11 ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-15 23:36 ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-15 23:51 ` David Lang
2002-02-16 0:49 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-16 0:08 ` Ben Greear
2002-02-18 9:41 ` Rogier Wolff
2002-02-18 16:07 ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-16 9:53 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-02-16 13:04 ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-16 15:53 ` Michal Jaegermann
2002-02-17 23:06 ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-15 22:41 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 23:37 ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-16 1:14 ` William Scott Lockwood III
2002-02-16 1:59 ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-16 2:08 ` William Scott Lockwood III
2002-02-17 4:36 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-16 4:17 ` John Jasen
2002-02-16 4:20 ` William Scott Lockwood III
2002-02-15 22:27 ` yodaiken
2002-02-15 22:19 ` Cort Dougan
2002-02-16 8:33 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 14:53 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:55 ` Alan Cox
2002-02-15 22:21 ` Robert Love
2002-02-15 22:29 ` That Linux Guy
2002-02-16 5:02 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 14:50 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 15:33 ` CML2 feedback (was Re: Disgusted with kbuild developers) Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 16:06 ` Disgusted with kbuild developers Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-16 16:08 ` Eric S. Raymond
2002-02-16 16:37 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-16 17:34 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-17 6:46 ` Matt D. Robinson
2002-02-16 18:29 ` Of Bundling, Dao and Cowardice Alexander Viro
2002-02-16 19:16 ` That Linux Guy <thatlinuxguy@hotmail.com>,Re: " Rik van Riel
2002-02-18 17:33 ` bill davidsen
2002-02-20 19:53 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-02-16 22:29 ` Disgusted with kbuild developers Joel Becker
2002-02-17 0:05 ` Rob Landley
2002-02-17 0:26 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-02-17 23:10 ` Matthias Andree
2002-02-16 9:46 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-02-15 21:24 ` Rob Landley
2002-02-16 9:30 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-02-15 17:02 ` Rik van Riel
2002-02-15 17:35 ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-15 18:00 ` Michael Alan Dorman
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-02-15 18:16 Dan Kegel
[not found] <fa.fs57c8v.pms19j@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.h6krj0v.ggg1hm@ifi.uio.no>
2002-02-16 9:04 ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2002-02-17 17:59 Michael Elizabeth Chastain
2002-02-17 22:07 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-18 21:04 ` Pavel Machek
2002-02-19 2:42 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-19 22:27 ` Felix von Leitner
2002-02-20 1:02 ` Keith Moore
2002-02-18 4:20 Michael Elizabeth Chastain
2002-02-18 15:15 SodaPop
2002-02-19 2:48 ` Daniel Phillips
[not found] <fa.i4fkbuv.1k1iiqm@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.iuo8icv.19g8gre@ifi.uio.no>
2002-02-19 7:55 ` Giacomo Catenazzi
[not found] <fa.i8v9q2v.6g8h03@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.hhvfopv.1f70hqv@ifi.uio.no>
2002-02-19 8:04 ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2002-02-19 8:13 ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-19 9:15 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-19 21:06 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-02-20 11:43 ` Pavel Machek
2002-02-19 10:04 Greg Banks
[not found] <fa.h0m1njv.tgmh9v@ifi.uio.no>
2002-02-19 11:23 ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2002-02-19 10:51 ` Greg Banks
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