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From: Werner Almesberger <wa@almesberger.net>
To: Bernhard Kaindl <bk@suse.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>,
	lkcd-general@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [lkcd-devel] Re: What's left over.
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:33:45 -0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20021031213345.D2599@almesberger.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210312221490.6945-100000@wotan.suse.de>; from bk@suse.de on Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 11:04:11PM +0100

Bernhard Kaindl wrote:
> An analogy to doctors, hospitals and patients:

I have a simpler medical analogy:

 - in many cases, all you know is that the patient died
   (e.g. think of a router - it has no console, no user
   interacting with it, etc.)
 - the Oops tells you the the patient died of a heart failure
   (NULL pointer dereferenced in this or that function, called
   from ...)
 - but it's only the autopsy (the crash dump) that reveals that
   the patient was poisoned, and that this is not a routine
   case

I view crash dumps as a tool that helps me imagine what the
machine was doing. Without that, I can learn many interesting
things about the code, but I won't necessarily find the actual
bug.

Examples of non-obvious bugs can be found in the various module
unload race discussions. There, usually competent people
suggested incorrect designs, simply because they failed to
imagine some constellations, and no amount of staring at the
source could have helped this lack of imagination.

- Werner

-- 
  _________________________________________________________________________
 / Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina         wa@almesberger.net /
/_http://www.almesberger.net/____________________________________________/

  reply	other threads:[~2002-11-01  0:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-10-31 20:22 [lkcd-devel] Re: What's left over Andreas Herrmann
2002-10-31 20:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-10-31 20:54   ` Patrick Finnegan
2002-10-31 21:08   ` Benjamin LaHaise
2002-10-31 22:04     ` Bernhard Kaindl
2002-11-01  0:33       ` Werner Almesberger [this message]
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-11-02 10:36 Brad Hards
2002-11-02 19:28 ` [lkcd-devel] " Matt D. Robinson
2002-11-01 19:18 Linus Torvalds
2002-11-01 20:22 ` [lkcd-devel] " Matt D. Robinson
2002-11-02 13:02   ` Kai Henningsen
2002-11-01  6:36 Linus Torvalds
2002-11-01  7:00 ` [lkcd-devel] " Castor Fu
2002-10-31 22:47 Richard J Moore
2002-10-31 23:39 ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-05 12:45   ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2002-10-31 21:33 Rusty Russell
2002-11-01  1:19 ` [lkcd-devel] " Matt D. Robinson
2002-11-01  2:59   ` Rusty Russell
2002-10-31 20:59 Dave Anderson
2002-11-01  1:25 ` [lkcd-devel] " Matt D. Robinson
2002-10-31 18:17 Deepak Kumar Gupta, Noida
2002-10-31 17:25 Linus Torvalds
2002-10-31 21:02 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-31 22:37   ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-05 11:42     ` [lkcd-devel] " Suparna Bhattacharya
2002-11-05 18:00       ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-05 18:36         ` Alan Cox
2002-11-05 19:19           ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-05 20:10             ` Alan Cox
2002-11-05 23:25               ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-06  0:21             ` Andy Pfiffer
2002-11-06  1:10               ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-06  1:37                 ` Alexander Viro
2002-11-06  2:05                   ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-07  6:04                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-07 12:17                       ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-06  4:07                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-06  4:47                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-06 19:24                     ` Rob Landley
2002-11-10 18:35               ` Pavel Machek
2002-11-06  2:48           ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-06  4:29           ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-06  6:25             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-11-06  6:38               ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2002-11-06  7:48               ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-06  9:11                 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2002-11-06 22:05                 ` Michal Jaegermann
2002-11-06 16:13               ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-07  8:50               ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-07 15:44                 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-11-09 23:05                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-09 23:33                     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-11-10  1:37                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10  2:12                         ` Alan Cox
2002-11-10  2:16                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10  3:03                             ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-10  3:23                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10 14:30                             ` Alan Cox
2002-11-10 16:56                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10  3:17                         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-11-10  4:26                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-11 18:03                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-09 23:39                     ` Randy.Dunlap
2002-11-10  2:58                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10 14:35                         ` Alan Cox
2002-11-10 18:13                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10  1:31                     ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-10  3:10                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10  3:30                         ` Werner Almesberger
2002-11-10  3:49                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10  3:49                         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-11-10  2:08                     ` Alan Cox
2002-11-10  2:18                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-11-10 14:31                         ` Alan Cox
2002-11-07 15:48                 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-11-08 18:01                 ` Alan Cox
2002-11-09 21:21         ` Pavel Machek
2002-11-11 16:27           ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-10-31 15:46 Linus Torvalds
2002-10-31 19:33 ` [lkcd-devel] " Castor Fu

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