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From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>,
	mark@mark.mielke.cc, billh@gnuppy.monkey.org, paul@clubi.ie,
	riel@conectiva.com.br, Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net
Subject: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers?
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:23:30 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030104222330.GA1386@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030104220651.GA30907@merlin.emma.line.org>

On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 11:06:51PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote:
> It's useful to have people around that think in other directions, they
> make up for innovation. Linux is an offspring of such people's thoughts.

Linux is a copy of Unix.  There is very little new stuff in Linux.
All of the innovation is built on top of a copy of a commercial work.

To date, nothing remotely as influential as Unix has come out of the
open source community.  Sure, there are a ton of copies of existing work,
that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about new things.  I keep
coming back to this because some of you refuse to get it.  It costs A LOT
OF MONEY TO MAKE NEW STUFF.  Because we are stupid, we all make a lot of
mistakes, we throw away those mistakes.  The free software model doesn't
generate 1/1000th of the money it would take to make progress continue
at its current rate in the software world.  Don't believe me?  Cool.
Go start a company, GPL your work, get back to me in 5 years and show
me how well it worked.

Other than distributions, where are those free software success stories?
Oh, yes, Cygnus.  They were doing about $25M/year or so when redhat bought
them.  Whoopee.  And Red Hat, *with* Cygnus, is doing all of $80M/year.
And we all agree that they are the leader in the free software financial
success stories, right?  Who's bigger?  IBM?  Let's see, spent $1B and
by their own statements "almost have made that back".  Hmm, running at
a loss but going to make it up on volume.

Now let's compare to some closed source companies:

	Company		Factor more revenue than Red Hat
	Microsoft	370
	Oracle		116
	Sun		150

You get the idea.  Sun makes more in 2 days than Red Hat makes all year.
It doesn't even take Microsoft a whole day to make what Red Hat makes in
a year.

> This is exaggerated, but it might help stepping back and looking at the
> WHOLE system.

Indeed.  Look over your shoulder.  That's me, stepped way farther back than you.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	 lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitmover.com/lm 

  reply	other threads:[~2003-01-04 22:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 280+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-31  3:57 Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Hell.Surfers
2002-12-31  6:55 ` David Schwartz
2002-12-31 10:51 ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:05   ` Xavier Bestel
2002-12-31 12:19     ` John Bradford
2002-12-31 14:22       ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-12-31 14:31         ` John Bradford
2003-01-01 19:28           ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 14:14     ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:41 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-12-31 13:49   ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:26     ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 15:36       ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:44         ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 17:05           ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-01 19:35           ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 15:11   ` Krzysztof Halasa
2002-12-31 22:36   ` David Schwartz
2003-01-01 16:45 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  0:31   ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:08     ` David Lang
2003-01-02  1:29       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:21         ` David Lang
2003-01-02  1:38           ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:37     ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  2:57       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  5:58         ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  6:14           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03  3:32             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03  4:06               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03  5:00                 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03  5:15                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03  8:31                   ` David S. Miller
2003-01-03  5:04                 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03  5:12                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 12:16                     ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 12:51                       ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 13:42                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:46                           ` John Alvord
2003-01-03 14:48                           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 16:13                             ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03 16:58                               ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 14:04                                 ` Graham Murray
2003-01-05 22:37                                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06  1:43                                     ` Ian Molton
2003-01-06  5:26                                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:44                                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-06 16:06                                           ` Mark Mielke
     [not found]                             ` <3E195A4B.B160B1D2@aitel.hist.no>
2003-01-06 11:23                               ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-07  9:08                                 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-07 15:15                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-08 10:06                                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-08 12:28                                       ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:33                                         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 15:46                                           ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:46                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 16:00                                               ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-03 19:33                           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:31                             ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:49                         ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 16:16                         ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 17:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 17:53                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 18:03                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:29                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  1:33                                 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 21:19                             ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:37                               ` Disconnect
2003-01-03 23:44                                 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:52                               ` jw schultz
2003-01-04 15:41                               ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 13:53                             ` Daniel Egger
2003-01-03 16:16                         ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 16:37                           ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 18:38                         ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-03 19:02                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 19:10                           ` Ben Greear
2003-01-03 20:21                           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-04  1:51                           ` Alan Cox
2003-01-04  1:24                             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-04  5:28                             ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04  8:06                               ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-04  8:21                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03  6:04                 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-03  6:29                   ` Brad Hards
2003-01-03  7:04                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:31                     ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04  1:34                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 18:16                     ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 15:57                   ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-03 19:44                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 20:39                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:17                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04  6:55                   ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04  9:06                     ` Vincent Bernat
2003-01-04 21:04                     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 18:39                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04 22:06                 ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-04 22:23                   ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2003-01-04 23:10                     ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-05  0:00                     ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05  0:26                       ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05  1:48                         ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05 10:14                     ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 20:40                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 21:35                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:18                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:58                             ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 21:53                         ` Bruce Harada
2003-01-06 21:05                         ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-06 22:06                           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-05 18:34                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 19:28                       ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-05 22:13                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 17:13                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:29                           ` RIZEN
2003-01-07 13:39                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:31                           ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-06 17:39                           ` Bill Huey
2003-01-07 13:40                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:17                               ` Bill Huey
2003-01-08  8:00                                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 15:26                                   ` yodaiken
2003-01-09 23:13                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:40                                       ` David D. Hagood
2003-01-10  0:02                                       ` yodaiken
2003-01-11  0:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 18:10                                   ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-08  8:00                                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08  9:04                                   ` OT Naming. was: " Nils Petter Vaskinn
2003-01-08 11:23                                     ` Hacksaw
2003-01-08 12:09                                       ` Måns Rullgård
2003-01-09  9:08                                         ` Hacksaw
2003-01-12 11:56                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:27                                       ` OT Naming. was: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closedsource drivers? Michael D. Shannon
2003-01-08 11:53                                   ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Bill Huey
2003-01-09 23:13                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:19                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  0:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10  0:12                                       ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-10 10:51                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10 15:36                                       ` Linux KERNEL mailinglist! Jan Harkes
2003-01-10 16:10                                       ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Jeff Randall
2003-01-12 11:54                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:58                                           ` Jeff Randall
2003-01-14  5:47                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14  5:47                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:37                                               ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 11:23                                                 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-07 15:10                               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-03  4:38               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 20:31                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:35                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04 23:45                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 23:58                       ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06  4:55                           ` Philip Wyett
2003-01-03 23:01                   ` Gauntlet Set NOW! Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 23:56                     ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04  7:12                       ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-04  9:14                         ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04  9:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 10:01                             ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 19:31                               ` Matan Ziv-Av
2003-01-04 19:43                                 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-06 10:56                               ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-04 23:44                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  1:22                         ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-05  5:33                           ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-05  5:12                         ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05  5:31                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 10:47                             ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05 15:29                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09  7:28                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09  7:41                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09  7:50                       ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-09  8:08                       ` Andrew Morton
2003-01-09  8:57                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2003-01-09 23:06                         ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-03  7:51               ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:26                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 21:27                     ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-05 21:24                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:08                         ` Eric Ortega
2003-01-05 22:34                         ` Ian Molton
2003-01-05 23:09                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04  0:55                     ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  2:22                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04  3:18                         ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  3:18                           ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-04  6:00                       ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04  7:34                         ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  7:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  8:36                           ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04  8:52                           ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  9:16                             ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 21:47                     ` Roman Zippel
2003-01-05 11:15                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-01-04  1:19                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  1:32                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  2:22                       ` venom
2003-01-05  9:38                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-01-05 21:33                     ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:10                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 22:22                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  3:10                   ` David Schwartz
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  0:17                       ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05  4:39                         ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-05  5:35                           ` David Schwartz
2003-01-06 16:24                             ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-06 22:04                               ` David Schwartz
2003-01-07  0:08                                 ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-07 15:53                                 ` Georg Nikodym
2003-01-07 18:05                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-05 21:46                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:06                             ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 21:17                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:44                     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:45                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 23:03                         ` Xavier Bestel
2003-01-05 23:40                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-03 10:39               ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 11:29                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-03 11:33                   ` ZHAO Wei
2003-01-03 14:52                 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 15:03                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:27                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  6:12       ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-02  6:26         ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  8:51         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-02  1:57     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-02  1:32       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 20:39     ` David Schwartz
     [not found] <fa.led6ibv.hcejr@ifi.uio.no>
2002-12-31 15:03 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-12-31 19:11   ` David Schwartz
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-12-31 17:10 Roberto Peon
2002-12-31 17:43 ` Dan Egli
2002-12-31 17:46   ` Ralf Hildebrandt
2003-01-01  3:13 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-01  3:56 ` A Guy Called Tyketto
2003-01-01  4:48   ` Ed Sweetman
2003-01-01  4:20 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-01  5:13 A Guy Called Tyketto
2003-01-01  7:21 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-01  7:40   ` jw schultz
2003-01-01  7:43 Andre Hedrick
2003-01-01 16:13 ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-01 21:34   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  9:57     ` Jos Hulzink
2003-01-02  5:33 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-03 13:02 ` NEURONET
2003-01-03 15:40   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-02  6:48 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-02  6:56 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-02  7:06   ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-02 17:33     ` Gerhard Mack
2003-01-02  7:15   ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-02 17:43 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-03 16:45 Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 21:52 ` Samuel Flory
2003-01-03 21:55   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 22:55     ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 23:12       ` Samuel Flory
2003-01-03 23:43         ` jdow
2003-01-04  0:15           ` Samuel Flory
2003-01-04  1:30       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  1:15         ` David Lang
2003-01-04  1:34           ` Samuel Flory
2003-01-04  0:53 Billy Rose
2003-01-04  1:27 ` NEURONET
2003-01-04  6:20 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-04  7:11 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-04  7:22 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  8:53 ` Tupshin Harper
2003-01-05  6:14 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-05 12:02 ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-06 18:03 J.S.Souza

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