From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: "Vladimir G. Ivanovic" <vladimir@acm.org>
Subject: Re: Kernel build problem
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:23:55 -0700
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Reply-To: "Vladimir G. Ivanovic" <vladimir@acm.org>
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In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:57:06 EDT."
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To: "Dunn, Charles" <CDunn@empirix.com>
Cc: linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org

To be fair, it's not really a Red Hat issue, but rather Linus's belief
that debuggers lead to patching symptoms rather than fixing the
underlying problem.

--- Vladimir

-- 
Vladimir G. Ivanovic                        http://leonora.org/~vladimir
Palo Alto, CA 94306                                      +1 650 678 8014

>>>>> "cd" == Charles Dunn <Dunn> writes:

    >> It is a pity that
    >> RedHat do not want kdb, it means that RH users have a lot of trouble
    >> trying to debug their systems.  OTOH SuSE are happy to include kdb in
    >> their distributions.
    cd> 
    cd> I agree 1000%! I went around and around with RH sales about this. No
    cd> complaints about the sales person, she really tried to get to the bottom
    cd> of why this is the way it is, and she even found the answer.. In talking
    cd> with her it was clear that in 99% of her conversations with RH engineers
    cd> the attitude was one of: "Debuggers produce bad fixes. Always. Debuggers
    cd> are evil.".. 
    cd> 
    cd> This is like blaming forks for a person being overweight. Any tool can
    cd> be used badly. No debugger is a substitute for understanding the code
    cd> and producing a good solution. But a debugger can illuminate specific
    cd> problem causes and shorten the debug cycle like few other tools can...
    cd> This whole debugger thing with RH has been frustrating beyond words. We
    cd> may even switch from RH to SuSe because of this, but mostly because RH
    cd> seems to enjoy making life hard for embedded products makers who want to
    cd> use RH. We are building VoIP test equipment and want to use RH as the OS
    cd> inside.. They are making us jump through hoops that Microsoft hasn't
    cd> even thought of yet. It's getting close to the point where it would be
    cd> cheaper per  box sold to have Windows inside than Linux.. Am I crazy or
    cd> is that just a tad upside down from where Linux is supposed to be
    cd> going???
    cd> 
    cd> -Charlie Dunn
    cd>  Empirix Inc.
    cd> 
    cd> 
    cd> 
    cd> ---------------------------
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