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From: Olivier Galibert <galibert@pobox.com>
To: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>
Cc: Linux-pm mailing list <linux-pm@lists.osdl.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] userland swsusp
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:12:04 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20051117201204.GA32376@dspnet.fr.eu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1132257432.4438.8.camel@mindpipe>

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On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 02:57:11PM -0500, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 18:02 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 11:05:00PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > > Now... if something can be
> > > done in userspace, it probably should.
> > 
> > And that usually means it just isn't done.  Cases in point:
> > multichannel audio software mixing, video pixel formats conversion.
> 
> What are you talking about?  ALSA does mixing in userspace, it works
> great.

You have an interesting definition of "great".

1- It doesn't work without an annoyingly complex, extremely badly
   documented user configuration. To the point that it doesn't work in
   either an out-of-the-box, updated Fedora Core 3 nor an
   out-of-the-box gentoo.

2- It doesn't work for programs that do not use the annoyingly complex
   and horribly documented alsa library, which includes everything
   that still uses OSS[1].

You call that great?  Multiple audio streams is such a basic feature
it should work, period.  No if, no buts, and no obligatory library.
Which doesn't preclude having it in userspace, mind you.  But it
should never have been the _application_'s responsability.

  OG.

[1] Which is so easier to use for normal programs' audio it's not
    funny.

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Olivier Galibert <galibert@pobox.com>
To: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux-pm mailing list <linux-pm@lists.osdl.org>
Subject: Re: [linux-pm] [RFC] userland swsusp
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:12:04 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20051117201204.GA32376@dspnet.fr.eu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1132257432.4438.8.camel@mindpipe>

On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 02:57:11PM -0500, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 18:02 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 11:05:00PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > > Now... if something can be
> > > done in userspace, it probably should.
> > 
> > And that usually means it just isn't done.  Cases in point:
> > multichannel audio software mixing, video pixel formats conversion.
> 
> What are you talking about?  ALSA does mixing in userspace, it works
> great.

You have an interesting definition of "great".

1- It doesn't work without an annoyingly complex, extremely badly
   documented user configuration. To the point that it doesn't work in
   either an out-of-the-box, updated Fedora Core 3 nor an
   out-of-the-box gentoo.

2- It doesn't work for programs that do not use the annoyingly complex
   and horribly documented alsa library, which includes everything
   that still uses OSS[1].

You call that great?  Multiple audio streams is such a basic feature
it should work, period.  No if, no buts, and no obligatory library.
Which doesn't preclude having it in userspace, mind you.  But it
should never have been the _application_'s responsability.

  OG.

[1] Which is so easier to use for normal programs' audio it's not
    funny.

  reply	other threads:[~2005-11-17 20:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 81+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-11-16 16:10 [RFC] userland swsusp Gross, Mark
2005-11-16 16:10 ` [linux-pm] " Gross, Mark
2005-11-16 16:44 ` Greg KH
2005-11-16 16:44   ` [linux-pm] " Greg KH
2005-11-16 20:20   ` Nigel Cunningham
2005-11-16 22:05     ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-16 21:13       ` Nigel Cunningham
2005-11-16 22:41         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2005-11-16 22:41           ` [linux-pm] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2005-11-16 22:50         ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-16 22:50           ` [linux-pm] " Pavel Machek
2005-11-17 17:02       ` Olivier Galibert
2005-11-17 17:02         ` [linux-pm] " Olivier Galibert
2005-11-17 19:57         ` Lee Revell
2005-11-17 19:57           ` [linux-pm] " Lee Revell
2005-11-17 20:12           ` Olivier Galibert [this message]
2005-11-17 20:12             ` Olivier Galibert
2005-11-17 20:20             ` Lee Revell
2005-11-17 20:37               ` Dave Jones
2005-11-17 20:46                 ` Lee Revell
2005-11-17 20:46                   ` [linux-pm] " Lee Revell
2005-11-17 20:59                   ` Dave Jones
2005-11-17 20:59                     ` [linux-pm] " Dave Jones
2005-11-17 20:54                 ` Lee Revell
2005-11-17 21:01                   ` Dave Jones
2005-11-17 21:06                   ` Chris Wright
2005-11-17 21:14                     ` Lee Revell
2005-11-17 21:14                       ` [linux-pm] " Lee Revell
2005-11-17 21:18                       ` Chris Wright
2005-11-17 21:18                         ` [linux-pm] " Chris Wright
2005-11-17 21:45                         ` Diego Calleja
2005-11-17 21:45                           ` Diego Calleja
2005-11-17 21:09                 ` Matthew Garrett
2005-11-17 21:09                   ` Matthew Garrett
2005-11-17 21:16                   ` Lee Revell
2005-11-17 21:16                     ` [linux-pm] " Lee Revell
2005-11-17 20:47             ` Lee Revell
2005-11-17 20:47               ` [linux-pm] " Lee Revell
2005-11-17 20:50             ` software mixing [was Re: [linux-pm] [RFC] userland swsusp] Lee Revell
2005-11-16 22:10     ` [RFC] userland swsusp Greg KH
2005-11-16 22:10       ` [linux-pm] " Greg KH
2005-11-16 21:25       ` Nigel Cunningham
2005-11-16 21:25         ` [linux-pm] " Nigel Cunningham
2005-11-17  7:14         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-11-17  7:14           ` [linux-pm] " Arjan van de Ven
2005-11-16 19:10 ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-16 19:10   ` [linux-pm] " Pavel Machek
2005-11-17 16:54   ` Olivier Galibert
2005-11-17 16:44     ` Greg KH
2005-11-17 17:03       ` Patrick Mochel
2005-11-17 17:03         ` [linux-pm] " Patrick Mochel
2005-11-17 17:31       ` Olivier Galibert
2005-11-17 20:15       ` Jacek Kawa
2005-11-17 20:15         ` [linux-pm] " Jacek Kawa
2005-11-17 21:56         ` Greg KH
2005-11-18 17:41           ` Jacek Kawa
2005-11-18 17:41             ` [linux-pm] " Jacek Kawa
2005-11-18 23:22     ` Pavel Machek
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-11-17 18:50 Starikovskiy, Alexey Y
2005-11-16 16:00 Stefan Rompf
2005-11-16 19:07 ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-17  7:19   ` Stefan Rompf
2005-11-17 10:01     ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-21  6:23   ` Rob Landley
2005-11-21 14:14     ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-15 21:29 Pavel Machek
2005-11-15 21:29 ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-15 21:32 ` Greg KH
2005-11-15 22:25 ` [linux-pm] " Dave Jones
2005-11-15 23:32   ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-15 23:40     ` Dave Jones
2005-11-16  8:56       ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-16 21:41       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2005-11-16  4:35     ` [linux-pm] " Dumitru Ciobarcianu
2005-11-16  6:14       ` Greg KH
2005-11-16  6:00         ` Nigel Cunningham
2005-11-16 16:50           ` Greg KH
2005-11-16 19:57             ` Nigel Cunningham
2005-11-16 21:35               ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-16 21:13                 ` Nigel Cunningham
2005-11-16 22:47                   ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-23 10:16                     ` Lorenzo Colitti
2005-11-23 12:02                       ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-19  9:32           ` Rob Landley
2005-11-19 23:51             ` Pavel Machek
2005-11-18 19:36   ` Alan Cox
2005-11-18 21:18     ` [linux-pm] " Dave Jones
2005-11-18 21:20       ` Greg KH
2005-11-19 23:43       ` [linux-pm] " Pavel Machek
2005-11-20 21:48         ` Dave Jones
2005-11-20 22:09           ` [linux-pm] " Pavel Machek
2005-11-21 11:47             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2005-11-21 14:19               ` Pavel Machek

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