From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.43) id 1KIkpZ-0003hx-0K for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:44:37 -0400 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KIkpX-0003hd-JC for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:44:35 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KIkpW-0003hP-0I for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:44:35 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=35755 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KIkpV-0003hK-SJ for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:44:33 -0400 Received: from aybabtu.com ([69.60.117.155]:51519) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KIkpU-0002ee-J8 for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:44:32 -0400 Received: from [192.168.10.10] (helo=thorin) by aybabtu.com with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KIkkK-0000g7-Am for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:39:13 +0200 Received: from rmh by thorin with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KIkod-0006R5-9H for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:43:39 +0200 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:43:39 +0200 From: Robert Millan To: The development of GRUB 2 Message-ID: <20080715134339.GA24537@thorin> References: <200807080732.41009.okuji@enbug.org> <1215496650.3238.168.camel@sycorax> <200807130345.18515.okuji@enbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <200807130345.18515.okuji@enbug.org> Organization: free as in freedom X-Message-Flag: Worried about Outlook viruses? Switch to Thunderbird! www.mozilla.com/thunderbird X-Debbugs-No-Ack: true User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. Subject: Re: grub to help refund of pre-installations X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GRUB 2 List-Id: The development of GRUB 2 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:44:36 -0000 On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:45:18AM +0200, Yoshinori K. Okuji wrote: > On Tuesday 08 July 2008 07:57:30 Jean-Christophe Haessig wrote: > > Le mardi 08 juillet 2008 à 07:32 +0200, Yoshinori K. Okuji a écrit : > > > > > > > > In fact, you want to write a GRUB module which deciphers a partition > > when given a key. That's no DRM in any way. In the DRM world, users > > don't (and can't) get the real keys. > > You are completely right. I don't try to mean that it is a sort of DRM by > itself. My concern is rather about making it too easy to implement DRM on the > top of GRUB. For example, if the logic is present, it is very straightforward > to get a key from somewhere else but an user input (e.g. by using a BIOS > call), and hide it from the user. I can think of many nasty ways to hide the > key, even if GRUB is free. TC/DRM proponents tend to mix legitimate security features with their handcuffware in order to confuse the public. I think the best response to this is to implement any security features as long as they're legitimate and don't rely on treachery-encumbered technology (such as TPMs). This would contribute to split both things, and when they're only left with their illegitimate features, they've already lost (because nobody will buy them). What's happening nowadays is that people start to use TPMs as if they were a security feature, which is really bad as it reduces opposition to them dramaticaly. I think the technical benefit they get by reusing our code is minimal in comparison. -- Robert Millan I know my rights; I want my phone call! What good is a phone call… if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.)