From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.43) id 1MnDXj-0003N9-Tk for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:32:40 -0400 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MnDXg-0003ME-RT for grub-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:32:37 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MnDXb-0003Kq-L8 for grub-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:32:36 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=32839 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MnDXb-0003Kj-5Q for grub-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:32:31 -0400 Received: from xvm-190-8.ghst.net ([217.70.190.8]:37508 helo=aybabtu.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MnDXa-0004Og-R5 for grub-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:32:31 -0400 Received: from [192.168.10.10] (helo=thorin) by aybabtu.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MnDXW-00084I-Nq for grub-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:32:26 +0200 Received: from rmh by thorin with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MnDXW-0006cj-3u for grub-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:32:26 +0200 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:32:26 +0200 From: Robert Millan To: The development of GRUB 2 Message-ID: <20090914153226.GA25403@thorin> References: <1252505468.2998.16.camel@fz.local> <1252587711.2908.38.camel@fz.local> <20090911131709.GC7959@thorin> <20090912125452.GB11249@thorin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: free as in freedom X-Message-Flag: Worried about Outlook viruses? Switch to Thunderbird! www.mozilla.com/thunderbird X-Debbugs-No-Ack: true User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Subject: Re: About firmware facilities X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GRUB 2 List-Id: The development of GRUB 2 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:32:37 -0000 On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 01:54:33PM -0700, Seth Goldberg wrote: > > > Quoting Robert Millan, who wrote the following on Sat, 12 Sep 2009: > >> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 02:07:10PM -0700, Seth Goldberg wrote: >>> >>> I strongly disagree with you in this specific case. Our experience in >>> Solaris has demonstrated that PXE firmware is surprisingly robust (when >>> the right combination of API calls (i.e. those tested by Windows) are >>> used). We have been successfully using PXE-based firmware for netbooting >>> for many years now, and we would like to continue to do so. Maintaining >>> a driver collection for NICs is futile, IMHO. Using the firmware that's >>> there, and that's reliable should be the goal. Not all firmware is our >>> enemy :). >> >> Reliing on proprietary firmware is a compromise. We don't install the blobs >> ourselves, so we're not responsible for them, but it is still problematic >> because user has less freedom (firmware bugs is just the most notable >> consequence of this). >> >> So our compromise is to use firmware when we have no other choice, or when >> the alternative is not reasonable (e.g. not mature or complete enough). >> >> My goal as maintainer is to encourage development of a usable and complete >> driver framework. I'm open to discussion about accepting code for using >> hardware support from firmware, but keep in mind it's not our primary goal. >> >> In the specific case of network hardware, I'm more reluctant because it's >> a regression compared to what we had in GRUB Legacy. > > I agree that choice is very important. In this case, our choice is to > rely on PXE firmware, since we've had excellent experiences with it. We > added an UNDI network driver to legacy GRUB, so from our perspective, not > having PXE in GRUB2 is the regression :). Well, you have the freedom to disagree with anything we do and bring your customized GRUB to a different direction :-) Anyhow, my priority for GRUB is strong driver-based support. We could recruit someone to develop the framework in next year's GSoC (unless somebody steps in, of course). -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."