[Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Chris Ball]

Hi TAB folks,

This is a little bit of a long story.  I'm the upstream MMC maintainer,
and have started seeing bug reports for a new Realtek card reader that's
not yet supported in mainline.  Here are some of the bugs:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/658351 # Dell M301Z
https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2390 # HP Mini Note

I'd like to fix this by adding mainline support for the device, but it's
hard to do so without hardware.  I'm sure there's *someone* in the
kernel community who knows people at Realtek or Dell or HP, one of whom
could get me access to hardware, but I don't know who that person is.

I'm thinking that it would be pretty helpful if (a) there was a person
who actively cultivated vendor contacts for this purpose, and (b) if the
kernel maintainers all knew who that person was, and that it's okay to
mail them if you're the maintainer of a driver and need to get hardware
to test/fix it on.

Does that make sense?  Could LF be the right group to organize having
such a person exist?

In the case of this particular device, I was pointed at Bdale Garbee by
people on IRC (but wouldn't have known to e-mail him myself) and will
see if I can get him to help.  But, even assuming he can help me, that
still doesn't solve the problem in the general case.  Any ideas?

Thanks,

- Chris.
-- 
Chris Ball   <cjb@laptop.org>   <http://printf.net/>
One Laptop Per Child

Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Greg KH]

On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 04:23:31PM -0500, Chris Ball wrote:
> Hi TAB folks,
> 
> This is a little bit of a long story.  I'm the upstream MMC maintainer,
> and have started seeing bug reports for a new Realtek card reader that's
> not yet supported in mainline.  Here are some of the bugs:
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/658351 # Dell M301Z
> https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2390 # HP Mini Note
> 
> I'd like to fix this by adding mainline support for the device, but it's
> hard to do so without hardware.  I'm sure there's *someone* in the
> kernel community who knows people at Realtek or Dell or HP, one of whom
> could get me access to hardware, but I don't know who that person is.
> 
> I'm thinking that it would be pretty helpful if (a) there was a person
> who actively cultivated vendor contacts for this purpose, and (b) if the
> kernel maintainers all knew who that person was, and that it's okay to
> mail them if you're the maintainer of a driver and need to get hardware
> to test/fix it on.
> 
> Does that make sense?

Yes, completely.

> Could LF be the right group to organize having such a person exist?

I don't see why not.

> In the case of this particular device, I was pointed at Bdale Garbee by
> people on IRC (but wouldn't have known to e-mail him myself) and will
> see if I can get him to help.  But, even assuming he can help me, that
> still doesn't solve the problem in the general case.  Any ideas?

I'd be glad to step up and work on accomplishing this.  But, supposing I
am successful in getting these contacts and keeping them up to date, how
would you recommend that we publicize this type of functionality that we
could now provide?

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Chris Ball]

Hi Greg, thanks for the reply,

On Fri, Mar 04 2011, Greg KH wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 04:23:31PM -0500, Chris Ball wrote:
>> In the case of this particular device, I was pointed at Bdale Garbee by
>> people on IRC (but wouldn't have known to e-mail him myself) and will
>> see if I can get him to help.  But, even assuming he can help me, that
>> still doesn't solve the problem in the general case.  Any ideas?
>
> I'd be glad to step up and work on accomplishing this.  But, supposing I
> am successful in getting these contacts and keeping them up to date, how
> would you recommend that we publicize this type of functionality that we
> could now provide?

A strawman proposal might look like:

* A mail to lkml announcing the program
* LWN article doing the same
* A mail to LF company members asking them to nominate a contact
  person and encouraging them to take part, explaining how they'll
  benefit from people who *already* want to write drivers for them
  for free and just can't get the hardware they need to do so.

Once a decent mass of kernel hackers know about it, I'm sure it'll
spread by word of mouth to reach everyone else who needs to know;
I don't think there'll be a problem with disseminating the program
once the first batch of hackers knows about it.

Thanks!

- Chris.
-- 
Chris Ball   <cjb@laptop.org>   <http://printf.net/>
One Laptop Per Child

Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Greg KH]

On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 06:51:06PM -0500, Chris Ball wrote:
> Hi Greg, thanks for the reply,
> 
> On Fri, Mar 04 2011, Greg KH wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 04:23:31PM -0500, Chris Ball wrote:
> >> In the case of this particular device, I was pointed at Bdale Garbee by
> >> people on IRC (but wouldn't have known to e-mail him myself) and will
> >> see if I can get him to help.  But, even assuming he can help me, that
> >> still doesn't solve the problem in the general case.  Any ideas?
> >
> > I'd be glad to step up and work on accomplishing this.  But, supposing I
> > am successful in getting these contacts and keeping them up to date, how
> > would you recommend that we publicize this type of functionality that we
> > could now provide?
> 
> A strawman proposal might look like:
> 
> * A mail to lkml announcing the program
> * LWN article doing the same
> * A mail to LF company members asking them to nominate a contact
>   person and encouraging them to take part, explaining how they'll
>   benefit from people who *already* want to write drivers for them
>   for free and just can't get the hardware they need to do so.

I think I'll do the last one first, to get a critical mass before
announcing it.

Supposedly we already have a technical contact at every LF member
company that would be the person we could use for this contact, but I
need to follow up and track that information down to get it in a usable
form.

> Once a decent mass of kernel hackers know about it, I'm sure it'll
> spread by word of mouth to reach everyone else who needs to know;
> I don't think there'll be a problem with disseminating the program
> once the first batch of hackers knows about it.

You are probably right, but it never ceases to amaze me how no one reads
our documentation, so putting it in a prominate place will be good :)

I'll work on this and let you know how it goes.

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Jim Zemlin]

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On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:

> I think I'll do the last one first, to get a critical mass before
> announcing it.
>
>
Agreed here.


> Supposedly we already have a technical contact at every LF member
> company that would be the person we could use for this contact, but I
> need to follow up and track that information down to get it in a usable
> form.
>

We have a CRM system that can at least help in that effort.

-- 
Jim Zemlin
Executive Director, The Linux Foundation
Cell: 415-726-2284
Fax: 1-415-520-6683
http://www.linuxfoundation.org

NOTE NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS: jim@linux.com

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Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Greg KH]

<cutting Chris off, as I doubt he cares about the details here.>

On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 07:38:00AM -0800, Jim Zemlin wrote:
>     Supposedly we already have a technical contact at every LF member
>     company that would be the person we could use for this contact, but I
>     need to follow up and track that information down to get it in a usable
>     form.
> 
> We have a CRM system that can at least help in that effort. 

Wonderful, how do I access it to see if it provides enough information,
and if not, add it to it?

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Jim Zemlin]

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On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:

> <cutting Chris off, as I doubt he cares about the details here.>
>
> Wonderful, how do I access it to see if it provides enough information,
> and if not, add it to it?
>

Not sure if we have enough seats.   Let me see - otherwise we can just build
a spread sheet. ;-)

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Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Greg KH]

On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 02:59:32PM -0800, Jim Zemlin wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:
> 
> > <cutting Chris off, as I doubt he cares about the details here.>
> >
> > Wonderful, how do I access it to see if it provides enough information,
> > and if not, add it to it?
> >
> 
> Not sure if we have enough seats.   Let me see - otherwise we can just build
> a spread sheet. ;-)

Eeek, I don't know which to be more afraid of, a CRM that you have to
pay seets for, or the output of such a tool into a spreadsheet...

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Greg KH]

On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 03:29:44PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 02:59:32PM -0800, Jim Zemlin wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > <cutting Chris off, as I doubt he cares about the details here.>
> > >
> > > Wonderful, how do I access it to see if it provides enough information,
> > > and if not, add it to it?
> > >
> > 
> > Not sure if we have enough seats.   Let me see - otherwise we can just build
> > a spread sheet. ;-)
> 
> Eeek, I don't know which to be more afraid of, a CRM that you have to
> pay seets for, or the output of such a tool into a spreadsheet...

Oh nevermind, it looks like all CRMs make you pay per-seat.  My friend
runs one and that's they way they make their money, so I guess it makes
sense...

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Jim Zemlin]

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On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:

> Oh nevermind, it looks like all CRMs make you pay per-seat.  My friend
> runs one and that's they way they make their money, so I guess it makes
> sense...
>

We are using SugarCRM and I believe Larry Augustin's words were, "Don't let
Greg use it."  ;-)

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Re: [Tech-board-discuss] Obtaining hardware for writing Linux drivers?

[Greg KH]

On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 03:49:37PM -0800, Jim Zemlin wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:
> 
> > Oh nevermind, it looks like all CRMs make you pay per-seat.  My friend
> > runs one and that's they way they make their money, so I guess it makes
> > sense...
> >
> 
> We are using SugarCRM and I believe Larry Augustin's words were, "Don't let
> Greg use it."  ;-)

Hey, I've lived with many horrible "enterprise" tools over the years,
nothing could be worse than Lotus Notes, or my most recent favorite,
"Clarity" that Novell insists on using for way too many things...

Anyway, and this is getting way off topic, I thought SugarCRM was open
source so why would it cost seats?

curious,

greg k-h