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From: Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>
To: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/36] AArch64 Linux kernel port
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:16:44 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20120715121644.GB10597@arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20120714093032.GA23316@elf.ucw.cz>

On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 10:30:32AM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > > > Agreed. It's clear from the code that it started out as a copy 
> > > > of the 32 bit ARM code base, which I think was a mistake, but 
> > > > it has also moved on since then and many areas of the 64 bit 
> > > > code are now much cleaner because they don't have to worry 
> > > > about breaking legacy code. We're also more flexible with 
> > > > trying out stuff without having to worry about breaking some 
> > > > 10 year old board code.
> > > 
> > > Just for the record, you guys are repeating all the same 
> > > arguments that led to the x86_64 fork a decade ago...
> > 
> > As I stated already, comparing AArch64 to x86_64 is not right. So even
> > if the arguments may look the same, the context is *different*. AArch64
> > is *not* an extension to the AArch32 mode.
> 
> Is it possible to boot 32-bit OS on aarch64 machine?
> 
> IOW, is it compatible in supervisor mode, too?

The AArch32 execution mode is optional, so it depends on the actual CPU
implementation (while AArch64 is mandatory). If the implementation
supports it, the most likely scenario for AArch32 at kernel level is in
virtual machines or the secure OS. I'll explain below why.

The exception (or privilege) levels on an ARMv8 architecture look like
this:

Secure World	Normal World
+-----+
| EL3 |				- Secure monitor
+-----+
		+-----+
		| EL2 |		- Hypervisor (normal world only)
		+-----+
+-----+		+-----+
| EL1 |		| EL1 |		- OS kernel (secure or normal)
+-----+		+-----+
+-----+		+-----+
| EL0 |		| EL0 |		- User apps (secure or normal)
+-----+		+-----+

In theory, each of these levels (implementation specific) can run both
AArch32 and AArch64 modes. There is however a restriction on how the
mode switching is done - this can only happen on a change of exception
level. When going up the EL the register width (RW) can never go down. A
lower EL can never have a higher RW than a higher EL.

Additionally, the RW (the AArch32/AArch64 mode) for an EL is controlled
by the next higher level (with EL3 hard-wired). An EL cannot cause
itself to switch between AArch32 and AArch64.

AArch64 Linux always runs in normal world because that's where we have
virtualisation support for KVM etc. It is normally started at EL2 (but
falling shortly to EL1) unless it is a guest OS which does not have
access to the virtualisation features.

The secure world on the left hand side runs some dedicated secure
software and the communication between the two worlds is handled via
EL3. That's also the reset mode, so SoC firmware needs to run there. The
secure OS could be a 32-bit one given the investment security companies
put in certification (and that's one reason to have AArch32 support at
EL1)

On the Linux side, to be able to start a 32-bit ARM kernel the firmware
at EL3 would have to configure the lower modes as AArch32. Once that's
done, lower mode would never be able to upgrade itself to AArch64
(rendering all the AArch64 features pretty much unusable). So we require
that any SoC firmware starts the next stage boot-loader or non-secure OS
in AArch64. AArch64 Linux is able to change the execution mode for user
at EL0 (as it is lower). Guest OSes could also run in AArch32 long as
the host Linux has control of EL2.

So while it is possible, the primary target for 32-bit at the OS kernel
level is virtualisation. We also don't plan to support a 32-bit SoC on
ARMv8 systems, given that the compat layer is fully functional.

-- 
Catalin

  reply	other threads:[~2012-07-15 12:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 184+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-07-06 21:05 [PATCH 00/36] AArch64 Linux kernel port Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 01/36] atomic64_test: Simplify the #ifdef for atomic64_dec_if_positive() test Catalin Marinas
2012-07-18  4:33   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2012-07-18  9:06     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 02/36] ipc: Add COMPAT_SHMLBA support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-18  5:53   ` Jon Masters
2012-07-18  9:03     ` Will Deacon
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 03/36] ipc: allow compat IPC version field parsing if !ARCH_WANT_OLD_COMPAT_IPC Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 04/36] ipc: compat: use signed size_t types for msgsnd and msgrcv Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 05/36] fs: Build sys_stat64() and friends if __ARCH_WANT_COMPAT_STAT64 Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 06/36] fdt: Add generic dt_memblock_reserve() function Catalin Marinas
     [not found]   ` <1341608777-12982-7-git-send-email-catalin.marinas-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
2012-07-07 21:18     ` Rob Herring
2012-07-07 21:18       ` Rob Herring
2012-07-08  9:43       ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 07/36] AArch64: Assembly macros and definitions Catalin Marinas
2012-07-07  5:57   ` Greg KH
2012-07-08  9:23     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-20 14:22   ` [07/36] " Christopher Covington
2012-07-24 16:40     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 08/36] AArch64: Kernel booting and initialisation Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:32   ` Stephen Warren
2012-07-08  9:18     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-23 17:48       ` Stephen Warren
2012-07-23 17:58         ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-18  6:57   ` Jon Masters
2012-07-18  9:07     ` Will Deacon
2012-07-20  7:11       ` Jon Masters
2012-07-19 17:31     ` Christopher Covington
2012-07-20  7:10       ` Jon Masters
2012-07-20  8:28         ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-20 10:52           ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-20 12:32             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2012-07-20 13:16               ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-20 13:47         ` Christopher Covington
2012-07-20 13:52           ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-20 13:48       ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-20 14:53         ` Christopher Covington
2012-07-23 20:52   ` [08/36] " Christopher Covington
2012-07-24 16:24     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-24 18:53       ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-24 23:20         ` Frank Rowand
2012-07-25  8:34         ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-24 19:42   ` Christopher Covington
2012-07-25  8:47     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-25 13:39       ` Christopher Covington
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 09/36] AArch64: Exception handling Catalin Marinas
2012-08-09 17:05   ` [09/36] " Christopher Covington
2012-08-09 17:23     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-08-09 19:19       ` Christopher Covington
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 10/36] AArch64: MMU definitions Catalin Marinas
2012-10-02  0:43   ` Jon Masters
2012-10-02 15:39     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 11/36] AArch64: MMU initialisation Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 12/36] AArch64: MMU fault handling and page table management Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 13/36] AArch64: Process management Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 14/36] AArch64: CPU support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 15/36] AArch64: Cache maintenance routines Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 16/36] AArch64: TLB maintenance functionality Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 17/36] AArch64: IRQ handling Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:05 ` [PATCH 18/36] AArch64: Atomic operations Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 19/36] AArch64: Device specific operations Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 20/36] AArch64: DMA mapping API Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 21/36] AArch64: SMP support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 22/36] AArch64: ELF definitions Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 23/36] AArch64: System calls handling Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 24/36] AArch64: VDSO support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 25/36] AArch64: Signal handling support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 26/36] AArch64: User access library functions Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 27/36] AArch64: 32-bit (compat) applications support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 28/36] AArch64: Floating point and SIMD Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 29/36] AArch64: Debugging support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 30/36] AArch64: Performance counters support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 31/36] AArch64: Miscellaneous library functions Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 32/36] AArch64: Loadable modules Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 33/36] AArch64: Generic timers support Catalin Marinas
2012-07-12  0:18   ` Linus Walleij
2012-07-12 10:09     ` Marc Zyngier
2012-07-12 10:56       ` Linus Walleij
2012-07-12 16:57         ` John Stultz
2012-07-12 17:31           ` Marc Zyngier
2012-07-12 17:39             ` John Stultz
2012-07-13 12:40               ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-13 16:02                 ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-13 16:32                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-13 18:30                   ` John Stultz
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 34/36] AArch64: Miscellaneous header files Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 35/36] AArch64: Build infrastructure Catalin Marinas
2012-07-06 21:06 ` [PATCH 36/36] AArch64: MAINTAINERS update Catalin Marinas
2012-08-10 16:24   ` [36/36] " Christopher Covington
2012-08-10 16:24     ` Christopher Covington
2012-07-06 22:58 ` [PATCH 00/36] AArch64 Linux kernel port Alan Cox
2012-07-07 21:30   ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-07 23:14   ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-07 23:29     ` Alan Cox
2012-07-09 11:35       ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-09 13:51         ` Alan Cox
2012-07-09 15:32           ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-09 15:49             ` Alan Cox
2012-07-09 16:02             ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-09 16:33               ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-07  3:29 ` Matthew Garrett
2012-07-09 12:32   ` Mark Brown
2012-07-09 13:06     ` Matthew Garrett
2012-07-09 13:56       ` Mark Brown
2012-07-09 14:02         ` Matthew Garrett
2012-07-09 15:46           ` Mark Brown
2012-07-07  3:53 ` Olof Johansson
2012-07-07 19:27   ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-07 23:45     ` Jan Engelhardt
2012-07-08  5:05       ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2012-07-08 20:28         ` Jan Engelhardt
2012-07-08  7:54     ` Jon Masters
2012-07-08 11:17       ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2012-07-08 18:13         ` Jon Masters
2012-07-08 18:31       ` Jon Masters
2012-07-08 22:24         ` Dennis Gilmore
2012-07-09  2:01           ` Jon Masters
2012-07-09  8:57             ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-09 13:33             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2012-07-08 20:31       ` Jan Engelhardt
2012-07-08 23:32         ` Jon Masters
2012-07-10  7:10     ` Ingo Molnar
2012-07-10 10:10       ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-10 15:33         ` Alan Cox
2012-07-10 16:52           ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-10 20:35             ` Ingo Molnar
2012-07-10 21:19               ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-10 21:48                 ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-11  8:20                 ` Ingo Molnar
2012-07-11 11:30                 ` Alan Cox
2012-07-10 21:44               ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-11  8:55                 ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-11  5:26             ` Rusty Russell
2012-07-11 10:53               ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-12  2:08                 ` Rusty Russell
2012-07-10 16:57           ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-10 16:52         ` Dennis Gilmore
2012-07-10 17:14         ` Joe Perches
2012-07-10 18:01           ` Jan Ceuleers
2012-07-10 18:05             ` richard -rw- weinberger
2012-07-10 20:16           ` Alexander Holler
2012-07-14 22:16             ` Jon Masters
2012-07-10 22:08         ` Chris Adams
2012-07-14  9:30         ` Pavel Machek
2012-07-15 12:16           ` Catalin Marinas [this message]
2012-07-15 19:43             ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-15 21:33               ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-16 12:16                 ` Pavel Machek
2012-07-17  7:05                   ` Jon Masters
2012-07-17  8:02                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-17  9:50                       ` Alan Cox
2012-07-18  2:36                         ` Jon Masters
2012-07-17 10:45                   ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-16  9:26               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2012-07-17  6:53               ` Christoph Hellwig
2012-07-17  8:07                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-16  8:24             ` Avi Kivity
2012-07-17  7:09               ` Jon Masters
2012-07-17  8:37               ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-15 23:21         ` Måns Rullgård
2012-07-15 23:53           ` Linus Torvalds
2012-07-17 22:18             ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-17 22:35               ` Joe Perches
2012-07-18  2:33                 ` Jon Masters
2012-07-18 15:27                   ` Dennis Gilmore
2012-07-18 17:14                     ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-18 17:25                       ` Måns Rullgård
2012-07-18 19:35                       ` Jon Masters
2012-07-18 19:55                         ` Linus Torvalds
2012-07-19 14:16     ` Guillem Jover
2012-07-07 23:42   ` Jan Engelhardt
2012-07-08 10:18   ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-09 12:31     ` Jan Engelhardt
2012-07-07  9:30 ` Mikael Pettersson
2012-07-07 19:21   ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2012-07-10 10:12   ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-14  9:35     ` Pavel Machek
2012-07-15 11:36       ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-16 16:19         ` Pavel Machek
2012-07-16 19:45           ` Arnd Bergmann
2012-07-16 19:47           ` Måns Rullgård
2012-07-18  5:35 ` Jon Masters
2012-07-18  9:13   ` Catalin Marinas
2012-07-26 11:59 ` Catalin Marinas
     [not found] <jknWN-4WG-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <jkulA-O3-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <jkIRz-2Hu-11@gated-at.bofh.it>

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