Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk]

On Mar 10, 2014 7:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
>
> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3. 
>
> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if those values are, in fact, correct.

We should also mention the early microcode support and how to use it?
I can add that in later on today.
>
> Thanks, 
>
> Russ Pavlicek 
> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems 
> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 
> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 
> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 
> ________________________________________ 
> From: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xen.org [xen-devel-bounces@lists.xen.org] on behalf of Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com] 
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:42 AM 
> To: George Dunlap; Zhang, Yang Z; xen-devel@lists.xen.org 
> Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] Please review the key 4.4 release docs 
>
> My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far. 
>
> One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM in http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List : 
> > [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to experimental or supported] 
>
> So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM? 
>
> Thanks, 
>
> Russ Pavlicek 
> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems 
> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327 
> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199 
> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894 
> ________________________________________ 
> From: George Dunlap [george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com] 
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 5:54 AM 
> To: Zhang, Yang Z; Russell Pavlicek; xen-devel@lists.xen.org 
> Subject: Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs 
>
> On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote: 
> > Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10: 
> >> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents for 
> >> the 4.4 release. 
> >> 
> >> All have hyperlinks from the download page: 
> >> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-seri 
> >> es/ xen-440.html 
> > I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested virtualization from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note. But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of it in the release note. 
>
> Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing to 
> call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts about how 
> well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a potential security 
> issue.  (On my to-do list is to collect these somewhere so we have a 
> clear set of criteria for moving nested HVM from "tech preview" to 
> "supported".) 
>
> It would be good to put something in the release note, however, to say 
> how much it has progressed.  I'll see what I can do. 
>
>   -George 
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 
> Xen-devel mailing list 
> Xen-devel@lists.xen.org 
> http://lists.xen.org/xen-devel 
>
> _______________________________________________ 
> Xen-devel mailing list 
> Xen-devel@lists.xen.org 
> http://lists.xen.org/xen-devel 
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Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

Konrad,

That would be terrific, thanks.

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________________
From: Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk [konrad.wilk@oracle.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 9:26 AM
To: Russell Pavlicek
Cc: Zhang, Yang Z; xen-devel@lists.xen.org; George Dunlap
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] Please review the key 4.4 release docs

On Mar 10, 2014 7:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
>
> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3.
>
> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if those values are, in fact, correct.

We should also mention the early microcode support and how to use it?
I can add that in later on today.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Russ Pavlicek
> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
> ________________________________________
> From: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xen.org [xen-devel-bounces@lists.xen.org] on behalf of Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:42 AM
> To: George Dunlap; Zhang, Yang Z; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
> Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] Please review the key 4.4 release docs
>
> My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far.
>
> One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM in http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List :
> > [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to experimental or supported]
>
> So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Russ Pavlicek
> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
> Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
> ________________________________________
> From: George Dunlap [george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 5:54 AM
> To: Zhang, Yang Z; Russell Pavlicek; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
> Subject: Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs
>
> On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
> > Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
> >> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents for
> >> the 4.4 release.
> >>
> >> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
> >> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-seri
> >> es/ xen-440.html
> > I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested virtualization from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note. But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of it in the release note.
>
> Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing to
> call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts about how
> well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a potential security
> issue.  (On my to-do list is to collect these somewhere so we have a
> clear set of criteria for moving nested HVM from "tech preview" to
> "supported".)
>
> It would be good to put something in the release note, however, to say
> how much it has progressed.  I'll see what I can do.
>
>   -George
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-devel mailing list
> Xen-devel@lists.xen.org
> http://lists.xen.org/xen-devel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-devel mailing list
> Xen-devel@lists.xen.org
> http://lists.xen.org/xen-devel

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Jan Beulich]

>>> On 10.03.14 at 14:26, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com> wrote:

> On Mar 10, 2014 7:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that 
> 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3. 
>>
>> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if 
> those values are, in fact, correct.
> 
> We should also mention the early microcode support and how to use it?
> I can add that in later on today.

But that's not new, support has been there since 4.2.

Jan

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

Well, the Feature Matrix does currently display all the 4.x releases.

If it is considered an important feature, perhaps it deserves a line item, displaying its arrival in 4.2 and its continued existence in 4.4?

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________________
From: Jan Beulich [JBeulich@suse.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 9:34 AM
To: Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
Cc: George Dunlap; Russell Pavlicek; Yang Z Zhang; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] Please review the key 4.4 release docs

>>> On 10.03.14 at 14:26, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com> wrote:

> On Mar 10, 2014 7:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that
> 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3.
>>
>> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if
> those values are, in fact, correct.
>
> We should also mention the early microcode support and how to use it?
> I can add that in later on today.

But that's not new, support has been there since 4.2.

Jan

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk]

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 01:34:24PM +0000, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >>> On 10.03.14 at 14:26, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 10, 2014 7:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek <russell.pavlicek@citrix.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that 
> > 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3. 
> >>
> >> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if 
> > those values are, in fact, correct.
> > 
> > We should also mention the early microcode support and how to use it?
> > I can add that in later on today.
> 
> But that's not new, support has been there since 4.2.

The one that scans the initrd image (aka ucode=scan). Which is similar to what
Linux can do - and best of all - dracut (which is used to generate initrd images)
supports it now.

Updated the release note with said information.
> 
> Jan
> 

Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

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I have done my best to compile the various key release documents for the 4.4 release.

All have hyperlinks from the download page:
http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-series/xen-440.html

I'd appreciate it if someone can review the 4.4 Feature List and the 4.4 Release Notes.  These wiki pages have been scraped and compiled from other docs, but I fear they may be incomplete or contain information which might need correction.  Please modify as needed.

Two pages need content that I don't have: the 4.4 Feature Matrix and the 4.4 Acknowledgements.  The first needs the hand of someone who knows in minute detail the contents of the new release.  The latter needs data which I'm not sure anyone but Lars knows how to obtain (and, if so, may have to wait for his return).

I will make the 4.4 download page appear in the XenProject.org downloads listing at release time on Monday.

I intend to be back online a couple hours before the 8 AM ET release time to work on any adjustments necessary.

Thanks,

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894

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Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Zhang, Yang Z]

Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents for 
> the 4.4 release.
> 
> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-seri
> es/ xen-440.html

I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested virtualization from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note. But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of it in the release note. 

> 
> I'd appreciate it if someone can review the 4.4 Feature List and the
> 4.4 Release Notes.  These wiki pages have been scraped and compiled 
> from other docs, but I fear they may be incomplete or contain 
> information which might need correction.  Please modify as needed.
> 
> Two pages need content that I don't have: the 4.4 Feature Matrix and 
> the 4.4 Acknowledgements.  The first needs the hand of someone who 
> knows in minute detail the contents of the new release.  The latter 
> needs data which I'm not sure anyone but Lars knows how to obtain 
> (and, if so, may have to wait for his return).
> 
> I will make the 4.4 download page appear in the XenProject.org 
> downloads listing at release time on Monday.
> 
> I intend to be back online a couple hours before the 8 AM ET release 
> time to work on any adjustments necessary.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Russ Pavlicek
> Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
> Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
> UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894


Best regards,
Yang

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
> Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
>> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents for
>> the 4.4 release.
>>
>> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
>> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-seri
>> es/ xen-440.html
> I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested virtualization from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note. But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of it in the release note.

Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing to 
call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts about how 
well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a potential security 
issue.  (On my to-do list is to collect these somewhere so we have a 
clear set of criteria for moving nested HVM from "tech preview" to 
"supported".)

It would be good to put something in the release note, however, to say 
how much it has progressed.  I'll see what I can do.

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far.

One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM in http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List :
> [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to experimental or supported]

So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM?

Thanks,

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________________
From: George Dunlap [george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 5:54 AM
To: Zhang, Yang Z; Russell Pavlicek; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
Subject: Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
> Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
>> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents for
>> the 4.4 release.
>>
>> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
>> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-seri
>> es/ xen-440.html
> I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested virtualization from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note. But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of it in the release note.

Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing to
call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts about how
well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a potential security
issue.  (On my to-do list is to collect these somewhere so we have a
clear set of criteria for moving nested HVM from "tech preview" to
"supported".)

It would be good to put something in the release note, however, to say
how much it has progressed.  I'll see what I can do.

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

On 03/10/2014 10:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
> My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far.
>
> One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM in http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List :
>> [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to experimental or supported]
> So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM?

I think "stable ABI" means" supported.

BTW, I've highlighted some things in the release doc that I haven't seen 
updated on the webpage / wiki yet:

* A 4.4 release "category" on the website (bullet point 1 of step 4).  
Bullet point 2 (the 4.4.0 release "category") seems to be there.
* The "Xen 4.x Manuals" page doesn't have links to 4.4 yet

Are you still working on it / is it scheduled for publication later?

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

On 03/10/2014 10:58 AM, George Dunlap wrote:
> On 03/10/2014 10:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
>> My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far.
>>
>> One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM in 
>> http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List :
>>> [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to 
>>> experimental or supported]
>> So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM?
>
> I think "stable ABI" means" supported.
>
> BTW, I've highlighted some things in the release doc that I haven't 
> seen updated on the webpage / wiki yet:
>
> * A 4.4 release "category" on the website (bullet point 1 of step 4).  
> Bullet point 2 (the 4.4.0 release "category") seems to be there.

...meaning at the moment, if you click Download link from the "Xen 
Project 4.4 Feature List" you get a 404.

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

>...meaning at the moment, if you click Download link from the "Xen
>Project 4.4 Feature List" you get a 404.

Correct.  However, I just published the category (since the announcement is now close) so it should now work.

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________________
From: George Dunlap [george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 7:05 AM
To: Russell Pavlicek; George Dunlap; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
Subject: Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

On 03/10/2014 10:58 AM, George Dunlap wrote:
> On 03/10/2014 10:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
>> My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far.
>>
>> One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM in
>> http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List :
>>> [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to
>>> experimental or supported]
>> So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM?
>
> I think "stable ABI" means" supported.
>
> BTW, I've highlighted some things in the release doc that I haven't
> seen updated on the webpage / wiki yet:
>
> * A 4.4 release "category" on the website (bullet point 1 of step 4).
> Bullet point 2 (the 4.4.0 release "category") seems to be there.

...meaning at the moment, if you click Download link from the "Xen
Project 4.4 Feature List" you get a 404.

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

On 03/10/2014 11:05 AM, George Dunlap wrote:
> On 03/10/2014 10:58 AM, George Dunlap wrote:
>> On 03/10/2014 10:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
>>> My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far.
>>>
>>> One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM 
>>> in http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List :
>>>> [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to 
>>>> experimental or supported]
>>> So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM?
>>
>> I think "stable ABI" means" supported.
>>
>> BTW, I've highlighted some things in the release doc that I haven't 
>> seen updated on the webpage / wiki yet:
>>
>> * A 4.4 release "category" on the website (bullet point 1 of step 
>> 4).  Bullet point 2 (the 4.4.0 release "category") seems to be there.
>
> ...meaning at the moment, if you click Download link from the "Xen 
> Project 4.4 Feature List" you get a 404.

There seems to be another place that needs linking somehow:

http://xenproject.org/developers/teams/hypervisor.html

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1606 bytes --]

Glad you saw that. Didn't realize that there was a module for that. I will fix that and update the hypervisor page as well.

Thanks.

Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com)

-----Original Message-----
From: George Dunlap [george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com]
Received: Monday, 10 Mar 2014, 8:35AM
To: Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com]; George Dunlap [George.Dunlap@citrix.com]; xen-devel@lists.xen.org [xen-devel@lists.xen.org]
Subject: Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

On 03/10/2014 11:05 AM, George Dunlap wrote:
> On 03/10/2014 10:58 AM, George Dunlap wrote:
>> On 03/10/2014 10:42 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
>>> My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far.
>>>
>>> One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM
>>> in http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List :
>>>> [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to
>>>> experimental or supported]
>>> So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM?
>>
>> I think "stable ABI" means" supported.
>>
>> BTW, I've highlighted some things in the release doc that I haven't
>> seen updated on the webpage / wiki yet:
>>
>> * A 4.4 release "category" on the website (bullet point 1 of step
>> 4).  Bullet point 2 (the 4.4.0 release "category") seems to be there.
>
> ...meaning at the moment, if you click Download link from the "Xen
> Project 4.4 Feature List" you get a 404.

There seems to be another place that needs linking somehow:

http://xenproject.org/developers/teams/hypervisor.html

  -George

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Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 299 bytes --]

On 03/10/2014 12:39 PM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
> Glad you saw that. Didn't realize that there was a module for that. I 
> will fix that and update the hypervisor page as well.

I was looking for what step 5 wanted -- it's not clear to me whether 
that's what it's talking about or not.

  -George


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Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 841 bytes --]

Yes, that was it.  My error was that I transcribed the checklist into a task list and somehow that fell off.

My error.  Page should now be correct.

Thanks,

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________
From: George Dunlap [george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 8:45 AM
To: Russell Pavlicek; George Dunlap; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
Subject: Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

On 03/10/2014 12:39 PM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
Glad you saw that. Didn't realize that there was a module for that. I will fix that and update the hypervisor page as well.

I was looking for what step 5 wanted -- it's not clear to me whether that's what it's talking about or not.

 -George


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Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3.

I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if those values are, in fact, correct.

Thanks,

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________________
From: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xen.org [xen-devel-bounces@lists.xen.org] on behalf of Russell Pavlicek [russell.pavlicek@citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:42 AM
To: George Dunlap; Zhang, Yang Z; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] Please review the key 4.4 release docs

My thanks to those who have made adjustments to the docs so far.

One note which still needs clarification is this comment about ARM in http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.4_Feature_List :
> [TODO: clarify whether support has moved from tech preview to experimental or supported]

So what is is the status of Xen Project on ARM?

Thanks,

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________________
From: George Dunlap [george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 5:54 AM
To: Zhang, Yang Z; Russell Pavlicek; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
Subject: Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
> Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
>> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents for
>> the 4.4 release.
>>
>> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
>> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-seri
>> es/ xen-440.html
> I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested virtualization from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note. But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of it in the release note.

Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing to
call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts about how
well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a potential security
issue.  (On my to-do list is to collect these somewhere so we have a
clear set of criteria for moving nested HVM from "tech preview" to
"supported".)

It would be good to put something in the release note, however, to say
how much it has progressed.  I'll see what I can do.

  -George


_______________________________________________
Xen-devel mailing list
Xen-devel@lists.xen.org
http://lists.xen.org/xen-devel

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

On 03/10/2014 11:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3.
>
> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if those values are, in fact, correct.

Two things off the bat:

* ARM has declared a stable ABI.  That means it's not in tech preview 
anymore.
* Nested virt can be changed to "tech preview".

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

On 03/10/2014 11:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3.
>
> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if those values are, in fact, correct.

Other things:

* New guest type -- PVH in "tech preview" mode.

* Add a new line under "guest limits" for "Number of event channels"?  
1024/4096 in <=4.3, 212K in 4.4+ (with guest support, of course)?

* I think we can take openvswitch out of tech preview -- I've been using 
it on one of my test machines since the 4.3 release

* Under "driver domains", add "Support for qdisk and block scripts in 
driver domains, as well as non-Linux driver domains"?

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[David Vrabel]

On 10/03/14 11:27, George Dunlap wrote:
> On 03/10/2014 11:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
>> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so
>> that 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3.
>>
>> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to
>> see if those values are, in fact, correct.
> 
> Other things:
> 
> * New guest type -- PVH in "tech preview" mode.
> 
> * Add a new line under "guest limits" for "Number of event channels"? 
> 1024/4096 in <=4.3, 212K in 4.4+ (with guest support, of course)?

I'm not sure where this 212K limit has come from -- it's 2^17 so 131072.
 I've updated the wiki pages accordingly.

David

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

David,

Thanks.  I've changed the number on Xen_Release_Features.

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________________
From: David Vrabel
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 8:01 AM
To: George Dunlap
Cc: Russell Pavlicek; George Dunlap; Zhang, Yang Z; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] Please review the key 4.4 release docs

On 10/03/14 11:27, George Dunlap wrote:
> On 03/10/2014 11:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
>> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so
>> that 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3.
>>
>> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to
>> see if those values are, in fact, correct.
>
> Other things:
>
> * New guest type -- PVH in "tech preview" mode.
>
> * Add a new line under "guest limits" for "Number of event channels"?
> 1024/4096 in <=4.3, 212K in 4.4+ (with guest support, of course)?

I'm not sure where this 212K limit has come from -- it's 2^17 so 131072.
 I've updated the wiki pages accordingly.

David

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Russell Pavlicek]

Please check the changes I've made.

Can you explain a bit more how you want the Driver Domains bit to go?  I'm not sure what you want it to look like.

Russ Pavlicek
Xen Project Evangelist, Citrix Systems
Home Office: +1-301-829-5327
Mobile: +1-240-397-0199
UK VoIP: +44 1223 852 894
________________________________________
From: George Dunlap [george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 7:27 AM
To: Russell Pavlicek; George Dunlap; Zhang, Yang Z; xen-devel@lists.xen.org
Subject: Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

On 03/10/2014 11:18 AM, Russell Pavlicek wrote:
> I just updated http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Release_Features so that 4.4 now pretty much mirrors 4.3.
>
> I'd appreciate anyone who can run through the 4.4 column to check to see if those values are, in fact, correct.

Other things:

* New guest type -- PVH in "tech preview" mode.

* Add a new line under "guest limits" for "Number of event channels"?
1024/4096 in <=4.3, 212K in 4.4+ (with guest support, of course)?

* I think we can take openvswitch out of tech preview -- I've been using
it on one of my test machines since the 4.3 release

* Under "driver domains", add "Support for qdisk and block scripts in
driver domains, as well as non-Linux driver domains"?

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Zhang, Yang Z]

George Dunlap wrote on 2014-03-10:
> On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
>> Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
>>> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents
>>> for the 4.4 release.
>>> 
>>> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
>>> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-s
>>> er
>>> i
>>> es/ xen-440.html
>> I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested
>> virtualization
> from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note.
> But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of
> it in the release note.
> 
> Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing to
> call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts about how
> well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a potential security

Actually, I'd like to know all potential nested issues and I will try to solve it if possible. But the problem is that I am not clear about those issues that you guys mentioned. Is there any thread talk about them?

> issue.  (On my to-do list is to collect these somewhere so we have a
> clear set of criteria for moving nested HVM from "tech preview" to
> "supported".)

Yes, it makes sense. 

> 
> It would be good to put something in the release note, however, to say
> how much it has progressed.  I'll see what I can do.

Yes, nested was moving forward in last year. It's better to tell this to people since lots of people unaware of this feature.

> 
>   -George


Best regards,
Yang

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

On 03/11/2014 01:23 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
> George Dunlap wrote on 2014-03-10:
>> On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
>>> Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
>>>> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents
>>>> for the 4.4 release.
>>>>
>>>> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
>>>> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-s
>>>> er
>>>> i
>>>> es/ xen-440.html
>>> I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested
>>> virtualization
>> from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note.
>> But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of
>> it in the release note.
>>
>> Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing to
>> call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts about how
>> well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a potential security
> Actually, I'd like to know all potential nested issues and I will try to solve it if possible. But the problem is that I am not clear about those issues that you guys mentioned. Is there any thread talk about them?

I think I was thinking along the lines of what I wrote in this thread:

Msg-ID <52E28EFB.3020008@eu.citrix.com>

It seems there the minimum thing for a "1.0" release is that an L1 admin 
must not be able to do anything to affect an L0; and thinks at the 
moment likely to do so are enabling PoD (and probably also paging) for 
L2 guests.  It's OK if enabling PoD crashes the *L1* hypervisor (because 
that's under the L1 admin's control); but it must not be allowed to 
crash / DoS the L0 hypervisor.

  -George



>
>> issue.  (On my to-do list is to collect these somewhere so we have a
>> clear set of criteria for moving nested HVM from "tech preview" to
>> "supported".)
> Yes, it makes sense.
>
>> It would be good to put something in the release note, however, to say
>> how much it has progressed.  I'll see what I can do.
> Yes, nested was moving forward in last year. It's better to tell this to people since lots of people unaware of this feature.
>
>>    -George
>
> Best regards,
> Yang
>
>

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[George Dunlap]

On 03/14/2014 05:24 PM, George Dunlap wrote:
> On 03/11/2014 01:23 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
>> George Dunlap wrote on 2014-03-10:
>>> On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
>>>> Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
>>>>> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents
>>>>> for the 4.4 release.
>>>>>
>>>>> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
>>>>> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-44-s
>>>>> er
>>>>> i
>>>>> es/ xen-440.html
>>>> I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested
>>>> virtualization
>>> from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note.
>>> But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no mention of
>>> it in the release note.
>>>
>>> Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing to
>>> call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts about how
>>> well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a potential security
>> Actually, I'd like to know all potential nested issues and I will try 
>> to solve it if possible. But the problem is that I am not clear about 
>> those issues that you guys mentioned. Is there any thread talk about 
>> them?
>
> I think I was thinking along the lines of what I wrote in this thread:
>
> Msg-ID <52E28EFB.3020008@eu.citrix.com>
>
> It seems there the minimum thing for a "1.0" release is that an L1 
> admin must not be able to do anything to affect an L0; and thinks at 
> the moment likely to do so are enabling PoD (and probably also paging) 
> for L2 guests.  It's OK if enabling PoD crashes the *L1* hypervisor 
> (because that's under the L1 admin's control); but it must not be 
> allowed to crash / DoS the L0 hypervisor.

BTW, I take it that you're only supporting 64-bit hypervisors at the 
moment?  A few weeks ago I tried Win7's "XP Compatibility Mode" with a 
32-bit guest and it just gave me weird errors when trying to start an L2 
guest.  64-bit worked just fine, however.

I don't think 32-bit L1's are particularly important, but it's 
officially not supported, that should probably be documented on the wiki 
page.

  -George

Re: Please review the key 4.4 release docs

[Zhang, Yang Z]

George Dunlap wrote on 2014-03-15:
> On 03/14/2014 05:24 PM, George Dunlap wrote:
>> On 03/11/2014 01:23 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
>>> George Dunlap wrote on 2014-03-10:
>>>> On 03/10/2014 04:27 AM, Zhang, Yang Z wrote:
>>>>> Russell Pavlicek wrote on 2014-03-10:
>>>>>> I have done my best to compile the various key release documents
>>>>>> for the 4.4 release.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> All have hyperlinks from the download page:
>>>>>> http://www.xenproject.org/downloads/xen-archives/supported-xen-4
>>>>>> 4-
>>>>>> s
>>>>>> er
>>>>>> i
>>>>>> es/ xen-440.html
>>>>> I thought that we have agreed that we will move the nested
>>>>> virtualization
>>>> from experimental to 1.0 or something else in Xen 4.4 release note.
>>>> But it seems it still in experimental state and there is no
>>>> mention of it in the release note.
>>>> 
>>>> Well we discussed it, but there were too many things still missing
>>>> to call it a properly supported feature: in particular, doubts
>>>> about how well shadow-on-hap would work, which would be a
>>>> potential security
>>> Actually, I'd like to know all potential nested issues and I will
>>> try to solve it if possible. But the problem is that I am not clear
>>> about those issues that you guys mentioned. Is there any thread
>>> talk about them?
>> 
>> I think I was thinking along the lines of what I wrote in this thread:
>> 
>> Msg-ID <52E28EFB.3020008@eu.citrix.com>
>> 
>> It seems there the minimum thing for a "1.0" release is that an L1
>> admin must not be able to do anything to affect an L0; and thinks at
>> the moment likely to do so are enabling PoD (and probably also
>> paging) for L2 guests.  It's OK if enabling PoD crashes the *L1*
>> hypervisor (because that's under the L1 admin's control); but it
>> must not be allowed to crash / DoS the L0 hypervisor.
> 
> BTW, I take it that you're only supporting 64-bit hypervisors at the moment?
> A few weeks ago I tried Win7's "XP Compatibility Mode" with a 32-bit
> guest and it just gave me weird errors when trying to start an L2
> guest.  64-bit worked just fine, however.
> 

Yes. 32bit is not covered.

> I don't think 32-bit L1's are particularly important, but it's
> officially not supported, that should probably be documented on the wiki page.

Sure. I will update the wiki.

> 
>   -George
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-devel mailing list
> Xen-devel@lists.xen.org
> http://lists.xen.org/xen-devel


Best regards,
Yang