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From: Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>, Linux-X86 <x86@kernel.org>,
	Cyrill Gorcunov <gorcunov@gmail.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Steven Noonan <steven@uplinklabs.net>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	David Vrabel <david.vrabel@citrix.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Srikar Dronamraju <srikar@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/5] Use an alternative to _PAGE_PROTNONE for _PAGE_NUMA v2
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 19:51:46 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140408185146.GP7292@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFwrwYmWFXWpPeg-keKukW0=dwvmUBuN4NKA=JcseiUX3g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 10:01:39AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de> wrote:
> >
> > If you are ok with leaving _PAGE_NUMA as _PAGE_PROTNONE
> 
> NO I AM NOT!
> 
> Dammit, this feature is f*cking brain-damaged.
> 
> My complaint has been (and continues to be):
> 
>  - either it is 100% the same as PROTNONE, in which case thjat
> _PAGE_NUMA bit had better go away, and you just use the protnone
> helpers!
> 

In which case we'd still use VMAs to distinguish between PROTNONE faults
and NUMA hinting faults. We may still need some special casing. It's plan
b but not my preferred solution at this time.

>  - if it's not the same as PROTNONE, then it damn well needs a different bit.
> 

With this series applied _PAGE_NUMA != _PAGE_PROTNONE.

> You can't have it both ways. You guys tried. The Xen case shows that
> trying to distinguish the two DOES NOT WORK. But even apart from the
> Xen case, it was just a confusing hell.
> 

Which is why I responded with a series that used a different bit instead
of more discussions that would reach the same conclusion. 

> Like Yoda said: "Either they are the same or they are not. There is no 'try'".
> 
> So pick one solution. Don't try to pick the mixed-up half-way case
> that is a disaster and makes no sense.
> 

I picked a solution. The posted series uses a different bit.

-- 
Mel Gorman
SUSE Labs

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>, Linux-X86 <x86@kernel.org>,
	Cyrill Gorcunov <gorcunov@gmail.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Steven Noonan <steven@uplinklabs.net>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	David Vrabel <david.vrabel@citrix.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Srikar Dronamraju <srikar@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/5] Use an alternative to _PAGE_PROTNONE for _PAGE_NUMA v2
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 19:51:46 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140408185146.GP7292@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFwrwYmWFXWpPeg-keKukW0=dwvmUBuN4NKA=JcseiUX3g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 10:01:39AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de> wrote:
> >
> > If you are ok with leaving _PAGE_NUMA as _PAGE_PROTNONE
> 
> NO I AM NOT!
> 
> Dammit, this feature is f*cking brain-damaged.
> 
> My complaint has been (and continues to be):
> 
>  - either it is 100% the same as PROTNONE, in which case thjat
> _PAGE_NUMA bit had better go away, and you just use the protnone
> helpers!
> 

In which case we'd still use VMAs to distinguish between PROTNONE faults
and NUMA hinting faults. We may still need some special casing. It's plan
b but not my preferred solution at this time.

>  - if it's not the same as PROTNONE, then it damn well needs a different bit.
> 

With this series applied _PAGE_NUMA != _PAGE_PROTNONE.

> You can't have it both ways. You guys tried. The Xen case shows that
> trying to distinguish the two DOES NOT WORK. But even apart from the
> Xen case, it was just a confusing hell.
> 

Which is why I responded with a series that used a different bit instead
of more discussions that would reach the same conclusion. 

> Like Yoda said: "Either they are the same or they are not. There is no 'try'".
> 
> So pick one solution. Don't try to pick the mixed-up half-way case
> that is a disaster and makes no sense.
> 

I picked a solution. The posted series uses a different bit.

-- 
Mel Gorman
SUSE Labs

  reply	other threads:[~2014-04-08 18:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-04-08 13:09 [RFC PATCH 0/5] Use an alternative to _PAGE_PROTNONE for _PAGE_NUMA v2 Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09 ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 1/5] x86: Require x86-64 for automatic NUMA balancing Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09   ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 2/5] x86: Define _PAGE_NUMA by reusing software bits on the PMD and PTE levels Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09   ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 3/5] mm: Allow FOLL_NUMA on FOLL_FORCE Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09   ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 4/5] mm: use paravirt friendly ops for NUMA hinting ptes Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09   ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 17:21   ` David Vrabel
2014-04-08 17:21     ` David Vrabel
2014-04-15 10:27   ` David Vrabel
2014-04-15 10:27     ` David Vrabel
2014-04-15 14:44     ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-15 14:44       ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 5/5] x86: Allow Xen to enable NUMA_BALANCING Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 13:09   ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 14:40 ` [RFC PATCH 0/5] Use an alternative to _PAGE_PROTNONE for _PAGE_NUMA v2 H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-08 14:40   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-08 15:22   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-08 15:22     ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-08 16:04     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-08 16:04       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-08 16:12     ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-08 16:12       ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-08 16:46     ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 16:46       ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 17:01       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-08 17:01         ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-08 18:51         ` Mel Gorman [this message]
2014-04-08 18:51           ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 18:55           ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-08 18:55             ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-08 19:06             ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 19:06               ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 19:08             ` Rik van Riel
2014-04-08 19:08               ` Rik van Riel
2014-04-08 17:03       ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 17:03         ` Mel Gorman
2014-04-08 17:30       ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-08 17:30         ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-08 17:41         ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-08 17:41           ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-08 18:16         ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2014-04-08 18:16           ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2014-04-09  6:21         ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-09  6:21           ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-09 23:34           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-09 23:34             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-10  0:12             ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-10  0:12               ` Linus Torvalds

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