From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Volker Lendecke Subject: Re: [PATCH v18 00/22] Richacls (Core and Ext4) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 21:17:00 +0100 Message-ID: <20160315201700.GA22945@sernet.de> References: <1456733847-17982-1-git-send-email-agruenba@redhat.com> <20160311140134.GA14808@infradead.org> <20160315071103.GC19747@infradead.org> <20160315154514.GB39038@jra3> Reply-To: Volker.Lendecke-PS7XAnAlDA+VvDNblw4Uiw@public.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160315154514.GB39038@jra3> Sender: linux-cifs-owner-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org To: Cristoph Hellwig Cc: Jeremy Allison , Andreas Gruenbacher , Alexander Viro , "J. Bruce Fields" , Linux NFS Mailing List , Theodore Ts'o , linux-cifs-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org, Linux API , Trond Myklebust , LKML , XFS Developers , Andreas Dilger , linux-fsdevel , Jeff Layton , linux-ext4 , Anna Schumaker List-Id: linux-api@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 08:45:14AM -0700, Jeremy Allison wrote: > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:11:03AM -0700, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > People have long learned that we only have 'alloc' permissions. Any > > model that mixes allow and deny ACE is a mistake. > > People can also learn and change though :-). One of the > biggest complaints people deploying Samba on Linux have is the > incompatible ACL models. Just to confirm: I see this a lot in the field. NFSv4 ACLs, while not a perfect match for NTFS ACLs are a lot closer much more usable to people who want to serve Windows clients. Also in the pure linux world there is a lot that you can not express with just rwx, sgid, sticky bits and friends. If you want the additional functionality of the richacl bits, I would call it a big mistake to omit negative aces, if just for the reason not to create yet another ACLs flavor. > Whilst I have sympathy with your intense dislike of the > Windows ACL model, this comes down to the core of "who > do we serve ?" The world has enough confusion around ACL semanics, please do not add more to it by creating your own model of the day. Volker From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.SerNet.de ([193.175.80.2]:49005 "EHLO mail.SerNet.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1756147AbcCOUjM (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 Mar 2016 16:39:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 21:17:00 +0100 From: Volker Lendecke To: Cristoph Hellwig Cc: Jeremy Allison , Andreas Gruenbacher , Alexander Viro , "J. Bruce Fields" , Linux NFS Mailing List , "Theodore Ts'o" , linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux API , Trond Myklebust , LKML , XFS Developers , Andreas Dilger , linux-fsdevel , Jeff Layton , linux-ext4 , Anna Schumaker Subject: Re: [PATCH v18 00/22] Richacls (Core and Ext4) Message-ID: <20160315201700.GA22945@sernet.de> Reply-To: Volker.Lendecke@SerNet.DE References: <1456733847-17982-1-git-send-email-agruenba@redhat.com> <20160311140134.GA14808@infradead.org> <20160315071103.GC19747@infradead.org> <20160315154514.GB39038@jra3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <20160315154514.GB39038@jra3> Sender: linux-nfs-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 08:45:14AM -0700, Jeremy Allison wrote: > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:11:03AM -0700, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > People have long learned that we only have 'alloc' permissions. Any > > model that mixes allow and deny ACE is a mistake. > > People can also learn and change though :-). One of the > biggest complaints people deploying Samba on Linux have is the > incompatible ACL models. Just to confirm: I see this a lot in the field. NFSv4 ACLs, while not a perfect match for NTFS ACLs are a lot closer much more usable to people who want to serve Windows clients. Also in the pure linux world there is a lot that you can not express with just rwx, sgid, sticky bits and friends. If you want the additional functionality of the richacl bits, I would call it a big mistake to omit negative aces, if just for the reason not to create yet another ACLs flavor. > Whilst I have sympathy with your intense dislike of the > Windows ACL model, this comes down to the core of "who > do we serve ?" The world has enough confusion around ACL semanics, please do not add more to it by creating your own model of the day. Volker From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from relay.sgi.com (relay2.corp.sgi.com [137.38.102.29]) by oss.sgi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2E87CD5 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:17:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cuda.sgi.com (cuda1.sgi.com [192.48.157.11]) by relay2.corp.sgi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8232304048 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.SerNet.de (mail.SerNet.de [193.175.80.2]) by cuda.sgi.com with ESMTP id DLZmC7xNeWuQ3fL7 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 21:17:00 +0100 From: Volker Lendecke Subject: Re: [PATCH v18 00/22] Richacls (Core and Ext4) Message-ID: <20160315201700.GA22945@sernet.de> References: <1456733847-17982-1-git-send-email-agruenba@redhat.com> <20160311140134.GA14808@infradead.org> <20160315071103.GC19747@infradead.org> <20160315154514.GB39038@jra3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160315154514.GB39038@jra3> Reply-To: Volker.Lendecke@SerNet.DE List-Id: XFS Filesystem from SGI List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: xfs-bounces@oss.sgi.com Sender: xfs-bounces@oss.sgi.com To: Cristoph Hellwig Cc: linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux NFS Mailing List , Theodore Ts'o , Andreas Gruenbacher , Linux API , Trond Myklebust , LKML , XFS Developers , "J. Bruce Fields" , Andreas Dilger , Alexander Viro , linux-fsdevel , Jeff Layton , linux-ext4 , Anna Schumaker , Jeremy Allison On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 08:45:14AM -0700, Jeremy Allison wrote: > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:11:03AM -0700, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > People have long learned that we only have 'alloc' permissions. Any > > model that mixes allow and deny ACE is a mistake. > > People can also learn and change though :-). One of the > biggest complaints people deploying Samba on Linux have is the > incompatible ACL models. Just to confirm: I see this a lot in the field. NFSv4 ACLs, while not a perfect match for NTFS ACLs are a lot closer much more usable to people who want to serve Windows clients. Also in the pure linux world there is a lot that you can not express with just rwx, sgid, sticky bits and friends. If you want the additional functionality of the richacl bits, I would call it a big mistake to omit negative aces, if just for the reason not to create yet another ACLs flavor. > Whilst I have sympathy with your intense dislike of the > Windows ACL model, this comes down to the core of "who > do we serve ?" The world has enough confusion around ACL semanics, please do not add more to it by creating your own model of the day. Volker _______________________________________________ xfs mailing list xfs@oss.sgi.com http://oss.sgi.com/mailman/listinfo/xfs