From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752631AbdK2Um1 (ORCPT ); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:42:27 -0500 Received: from mx0b-001b2d01.pphosted.com ([148.163.158.5]:32950 "EHLO mx0a-001b2d01.pphosted.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752216AbdK2UmZ (ORCPT ); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:42:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 12:42:20 -0800 From: "Paul E. McKenney" To: Alan Stern Cc: Peter Zijlstra , Daniel Lustig , Andrea Parri , Luc Maranget , Jade Alglave , Boqun Feng , Nicholas Piggin , Will Deacon , David Howells , Palmer Dabbelt , Kernel development list Subject: Re: Unlock-lock questions and the Linux Kernel Memory Model Reply-To: paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com References: <20171129194602.6zmjj7z5ih4ri25h@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 x-cbid: 17112920-2213-0000-0000-000002432807 X-IBM-SpamModules-Scores: X-IBM-SpamModules-Versions: BY=3.00008123; HX=3.00000241; KW=3.00000007; PH=3.00000004; SC=3.00000242; SDB=6.00953056; UDB=6.00481520; IPR=6.00733136; BA=6.00005721; NDR=6.00000001; ZLA=6.00000005; ZF=6.00000009; ZB=6.00000000; ZP=6.00000000; ZH=6.00000000; ZU=6.00000002; MB=3.00018255; XFM=3.00000015; UTC=2017-11-29 20:42:22 X-IBM-AV-DETECTION: SAVI=unused REMOTE=unused XFE=unused x-cbparentid: 17112920-2214-0000-0000-0000584D216B Message-Id: <20171129204220.GH3624@linux.vnet.ibm.com> X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2017-11-29_07:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1711290267 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 02:53:06PM -0500, Alan Stern wrote: > On Wed, 29 Nov 2017, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:04:53AM -0800, Daniel Lustig wrote: > > > > > While we're here, let me ask about another test which isn't directly > > > about unlock/lock but which is still somewhat related to this > > > discussion: > > > > > > "MP+wmb+xchg-acq" (or some such) > > > > > > {} > > > > > > P0(int *x, int *y) > > > { > > > WRITE_ONCE(*x, 1); > > > smp_wmb(); > > > WRITE_ONCE(*y, 1); > > > } > > > > > > P1(int *x, int *y) > > > { > > > r1 = atomic_xchg_relaxed(y, 2); > > > r2 = smp_load_acquire(y); > > > r3 = READ_ONCE(*x); > > > } > > > > > > exists (1:r1=1 /\ 1:r2=2 /\ 1:r3=0) > > > > > > C/C++ would call the atomic_xchg_relaxed part of a release sequence > > > and hence would forbid this outcome. > > > > That's just weird. Either its _relaxed, or its _release. Making _relaxed > > mean _release is just daft. > > The C11 memory model specifically allows atomic operations to be > interspersed within a release sequence. But it doesn't say why. The use case put forward within the committee is for atomic quantities with mode bits. The most frequent has the atomic quantity having lock-like properties, in which case you don't want to lose the ordering effects of the lock handoff just because a mode bit got set or cleared. Some claim to actually use something like this, but details have not been forthcoming. I confess to being a bit skeptical. If the mode changes are infrequent, the update could just as well be ordered. That said, Daniel, the C++ memory model really does require that the above litmus test be forbidden, my denigration of it notwithstanding. Thanx, Paul