From: Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: Jiri Kosina <jikos@kernel.org>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
Elena Reshetova <elena.reshetova@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] asm/generic: introduce if_nospec and nospec_barrier
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 01:41:00 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180104014100.3786e686@alans-desktop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1801040221070.27010@gjva.wvxbf.pm>
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 02:27:54 +0100 (CET)
Jiri Kosina <jikos@kernel.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2018, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> > There are people trying to tune coverity and other tool rules to identify
> > cases,
>
> Yeah, but that (and *especially* Coverity) is so inconvenient to be
> applied to each and every patch ... that this is not the way to go.
Agreed enitely - and coverity is non-free which is even worse as a
dependancy. Right now we are in the 'what could be done quickly by a few
people' space. The papers are now published, so the world can work on
better solutions and extending more convenient tooling.
> If the CPU speculation can cause these kinds of side-effects, it just must
> not happen, full stop.
At which point your performance will resemble that of a 2012 atom
processor at best.
> OS trying to work it around is just a whack-a-mole
> (which we can apply for old silicon, sure ... but not something that
> becomes a new standard) that's never going to lead to any ultimate
> solution.
In the ideal world it becomes possible for future processors to resolve
such markings down to no-ops. Will that be possible or will we get more
explicit ways to tell the processor what is unsafe - I don't
personally know but I do know that turning off speculation is not the
answer.
Clearly if the CPU must be told then C is going to have to grow some
syntax for it and some other languages are going to see 'taint' moving
from a purely software construct to a real processor one.
Alan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-01-04 1:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-01-03 22:38 [RFC PATCH 0/4] API for inhibiting speculative arbitrary read primitives Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` [RFC PATCH 1/4] asm-generic/barrier: add generic nospec helpers Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 12:00 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-05 4:21 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-05 9:15 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` [RFC PATCH 2/4] Documentation: document " Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` [RFC PATCH 3/4] arm64: implement nospec_{load,ptr}() Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` [RFC PATCH 4/4] bpf: inhibit speculated out-of-bounds pointers Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 23:45 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-04 10:59 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 0:15 ` [RFC PATCH] asm/generic: introduce if_nospec and nospec_barrier Dan Williams
2018-01-04 0:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 1:07 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 1:13 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 6:28 ` Julia Lawall
2018-01-04 17:58 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 19:26 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 21:43 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 22:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 22:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 22:55 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 23:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 23:11 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-05 0:24 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 22:44 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 23:12 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 23:21 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 23:33 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-05 8:11 ` Julia Lawall
2018-01-04 1:27 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 1:41 ` Alan Cox [this message]
2018-01-04 1:47 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 19:39 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 20:32 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 20:39 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 21:23 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 21:48 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 1:51 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 1:54 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 3:10 ` Williams, Dan J
2018-01-04 4:44 ` Al Viro
2018-01-04 5:44 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 5:49 ` Dave Hansen
2018-01-04 5:50 ` Al Viro
2018-01-04 5:55 ` Al Viro
2018-01-04 6:42 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 5:01 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-04 5:01 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-04 6:32 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 14:54 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-04 14:54 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-04 16:39 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 20:56 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 11:47 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 11:47 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 11:47 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 22:09 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-05 14:40 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-05 16:44 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-05 18:05 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 1:59 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 2:15 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 3:12 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-04 9:16 ` Reshetova, Elena
2018-01-04 20:40 ` Pavel Machek
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-01-05 10:33 Alexey Dobriyan
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20180104014100.3786e686@alans-desktop \
--to=gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk \
--cc=dan.j.williams@intel.com \
--cc=elena.reshetova@intel.com \
--cc=gregkh@linuxfoundation.org \
--cc=jikos@kernel.org \
--cc=linux-arch@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=mark.rutland@arm.com \
--cc=peterz@infradead.org \
--cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
--cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.