From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF43E2F for ; Tue, 8 May 2018 02:34:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from NAM03-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam03on0121.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.40.121]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 595D6299 for ; Tue, 8 May 2018 02:34:43 +0000 (UTC) From: Sasha Levin To: Tony Lindgren Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 02:34:41 +0000 Message-ID: <20180508023439.GA8514@sasha-vm> References: <20180501200019.GA7397@sasha-vm> <20180501205448.GE10479@thunk.org> <20180501211551.GI2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180502194632.GB18390@sasha-vm> <20180503020550.GP2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503031000.GC29205@thunk.org> <0276fcda-0385-8f22-dbdb-e063f7ed8bbe@roeck-us.net> <20180503224217.GR2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503230905.GA98604@atomide.com> In-Reply-To: <20180503230905.GA98604@atomide.com> Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Greg KH , "w@1wt.eu" , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 04:09:05PM -0700, Tony Lindgren wrote: >* Mark Brown [180503 22:44]: >> On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 08:52:29PM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote: >> >> > As for -next, me and others stopped reporting bugs in it, because when= we do >> > we tend to get flamed for the "noise". Is anyone aware (or cares) that= mips >> > and nds32 images don't build ? Soaking clothes in an empty bathtub won= 't make >> > them wet, and bugs in code which no one builds, much less tests or use= s, won't >> > be found. >> >> You've been flamed for testing -next? That's not been my experience and >> frankly it's pretty horrifying that it's happening. Testing is pretty >> much the whole point of -next existing in the first place so you have to >> wonder why people are putting their trees there if they don't want >> testing. I have seen a few issues with people reporting bugs on old >> versions of -next but otherwise... > >Yes I agree testing Linux next is very important. That's the best way for >maintainers to ensure a usable -rc1 after a merge window. And then for >the -rc cycle, there not much of need for chasing bugs to get things worki= ng. > >Bugs reported for Linux next often seem to get fixed or reverted faster >compared to the -rc cycle too. I think that's because people realize that >their code will not get merged until it's been fixed. > >So some daily testing of Linux next can save a lot scrambling after the >merge window :) > >Users don't usually upgrade kernels until after later -rc releases or only >after major releases so that probably explains some of the -rc cycle fixes= . Tony, I'm curious, how many users are you aware of who actually run Linus's tree? All the users I've encountered so far on Azure seem to be running something based on -stable. I can't really get any solid statistics about that on my end both because I don't have visibility inside user VMs (I don't actually have prod access believe it or not), and even if I had it would probably be=20 confidential, so I'm just basing this on reports from user's I've seen=20 so far. I think that a question we should be asking ourselves is whether we should be basing our decisions here on the assumption that (pretty much) no one runs Linus's tree anymore?= From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZoclRflElEOOLVjznEF6HjM33cLVn5vQ5IT/ntW3PXsIkaRIx1GUM6I5V2dPh3+Oj9RmK9J ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1525746882; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=FxK1gaX5ZoR9RZc9AQlnrFFd315dbBc1mDO2BS5qv+67FDSKzfQoehm+rCesuvUabH /UHV/6smDuYhYHUzCXBIubI+9DLoG/mim6cMvSqnGa+o5qGPMrs7i9B//pcyPrlAfAw5 Qzr9uxZ3bJ7XksbUA8BQeMA9sWzcWaDD1yynt6NjrCgkRK82ig9cS3IrOoMJT2GuL82u C6Hdqq1W6oVBU1XKiVf3We4LNd+eFIKGIhYBti1BhufdD9bM3/szt4QeuNutf5v7VjzK Vq1o666NXngXPZuRQ9rnv3txd40dimpQ/7mmsUz4c+5NUskJ++SGd3rQ5f2hvNU92VsQ wx3w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id :spamdiagnosticmetadata:spamdiagnosticoutput:content-language :accept-language:in-reply-to:references:message-id:date:thread-index :thread-topic:subject:cc:to:from:dkim-signature :arc-authentication-results; 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dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=microsoft.com From: Sasha Levin To: Tony Lindgren CC: Mark Brown , Greg KH , "w@1wt.eu" , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches Thread-Topic: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches Thread-Index: AQHT4WrQpZfAdTeY4k22b0OVmzGN0aQbRuYAgAAEU4CAAA85AIAABeKAgAC3HQCAAMJDAIAAafoAgAAR7QCAAAvfgIABO6qAgAAHfYCABoLCgA== Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 02:34:41 +0000 Message-ID: <20180508023439.GA8514@sasha-vm> References: <20180501200019.GA7397@sasha-vm> <20180501205448.GE10479@thunk.org> <20180501211551.GI2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180502194632.GB18390@sasha-vm> <20180503020550.GP2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503031000.GC29205@thunk.org> <0276fcda-0385-8f22-dbdb-e063f7ed8bbe@roeck-us.net> <20180503224217.GR2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503230905.GA98604@atomide.com> In-Reply-To: <20180503230905.GA98604@atomide.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [52.168.54.252] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1;MW2PR2101MB0972;7:wElzl2ghjDBLJsbB7ue1hKH8rT+hKzrsJeExl9vR8aPYKnHHiwZGwG3S7iTWRpQus6qwHexgh+JyaAf0yWhdEHYlNHQnccPStLsFXbkE9BMAPtzO3bRR/RO1m8qNuyKBELiVbScD2x73mg4u4iZldYvnWznHiEt+cCStv/doHjXEd/Lg0SH/PVRjNodsH11zniVcfXn8zjwCp5zwLAmDinOOpab3jpeV3PNdJn7/0HgVagE7DJowdcfRagDE+Dh5;20:nUIFnDwDgzcP3fGvDbu0gkq34HekXUemUQ47yA6Ulh0f1/yLFT6u0dh3aMiZQklYb+VHfVZKuPZW1zQdB3AY2L28iCXFyFDIYUokZGLyzXu9efZOnd58IdK6BBXDIFBOesGn3FC55ZKp68/NTGA7+4g6FMTDqkjW/aol8q5kneI= x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS; 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authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Alexander.Levin@microsoft.com; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: q1xdnv4FsC8F5AlQx9qZjscdHXrVoDrCrKD+ZzCxnIWPg/+IVySUWZbTE/E34WXlpBKbMu/hJ0p+VXO8QMuk5QtQG6Q4Qf42hlUx3jiaK/bnxNUmkxNmWuhA9h54WRrd3neLAzDLrrBMc0PTG0lBUahCZPmG41ZkpFWOsrrhbCRl4IGnXL30UGPOqAFgmoJt spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 8ab3f2da-2c47-472c-4f63-08d5b48c406f X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8ab3f2da-2c47-472c-4f63-08d5b48c406f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 May 2018 02:34:41.1001 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MW2PR2101MB0972 X-getmail-retrieved-from-mailbox: INBOX X-GMAIL-THRID: =?utf-8?q?1599280464106480109?= X-GMAIL-MSGID: =?utf-8?q?1599861563385556474?= X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-ID: On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 04:09:05PM -0700, Tony Lindgren wrote: >* Mark Brown [180503 22:44]: >> On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 08:52:29PM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote: >> >> > As for -next, me and others stopped reporting bugs in it, because when= we do >> > we tend to get flamed for the "noise". Is anyone aware (or cares) that= mips >> > and nds32 images don't build ? Soaking clothes in an empty bathtub won= 't make >> > them wet, and bugs in code which no one builds, much less tests or use= s, won't >> > be found. >> >> You've been flamed for testing -next? That's not been my experience and >> frankly it's pretty horrifying that it's happening. Testing is pretty >> much the whole point of -next existing in the first place so you have to >> wonder why people are putting their trees there if they don't want >> testing. I have seen a few issues with people reporting bugs on old >> versions of -next but otherwise... > >Yes I agree testing Linux next is very important. That's the best way for >maintainers to ensure a usable -rc1 after a merge window. And then for >the -rc cycle, there not much of need for chasing bugs to get things worki= ng. > >Bugs reported for Linux next often seem to get fixed or reverted faster >compared to the -rc cycle too. I think that's because people realize that >their code will not get merged until it's been fixed. > >So some daily testing of Linux next can save a lot scrambling after the >merge window :) > >Users don't usually upgrade kernels until after later -rc releases or only >after major releases so that probably explains some of the -rc cycle fixes= . Tony, I'm curious, how many users are you aware of who actually run Linus's tree? All the users I've encountered so far on Azure seem to be running something based on -stable. I can't really get any solid statistics about that on my end both because I don't have visibility inside user VMs (I don't actually have prod access believe it or not), and even if I had it would probably be=20 confidential, so I'm just basing this on reports from user's I've seen=20 so far. I think that a question we should be asking ourselves is whether we should be basing our decisions here on the assumption that (pretty much) no one runs Linus's tree anymore?=