* Re: [virtio-dev] Re: [PATCH] Update virtio input device specification [not found] ` <1491484886.12607.57.camel@redhat.com> @ 2018-06-20 3:13 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-08-28 12:05 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 2+ messages in thread From: Michael S. Tsirkin @ 2018-06-20 3:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gerd Hoffmann; +Cc: Ladi Prosek, virtio-dev, Stefan Hajnoczi On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 03:21:26PM +0200, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > Hi, > > > The downside is that this is hard to specify formally, the same way we > > do other devices. Say we do that and point to a fixed version of the > > relevant Linux headers and the headers evolve and add or change > > something. Then we would either go change the spec to be in sync with > > the headers or build a compatibility layer in the implementation. > > Highly unlikely that the structs and ioctls in linux header change. > It's userspace <=> kernel abi. And even if they change some days it > would have to happen in a backward compatible way. So I think > documenting the ioctl structs we have today is reasonable. If new > ioctls for new device types show up we probably need a virtio feature > flag anyway to properly support them. > > Events (new key codes for example) are added now and then. So for them > we might continue referencing the include file with the codes instead of > copying them into the spec. > > > because evdev > > needs to maintain some reasonable backwards compatibility by itself so > > it's very unlikely that things would break. > > Yep. Unknown events can simply be ignored. And you can query the > device to figure which events (aka keys / axis / ...) are supported > (ioctl in evdev, config space in virtio). So that level of > compatibility is already taken care of, in both evdev and virtio. > > > > Let's assume linux gains ability to generate new events on top of old > > > ones. > > > Do you want to send both in all cases? > > > If you only send multitouch how do you handle old guests? > > > If you send both how does new guest know it should > > > ignore old events? > > > > I think that these are valid concerns but they need to be addressed at > > the evdev layer, not in virtio. > > Indeed. And I think multitouch is addressed by simply sending both. > Apps without multitouch support simply ignore the multitouch events. > Apps with multitouch support can figure this is a multitouch-capable > device and ignore the old events on those. > > cheers, > Gerd Gerd is there a chance you could try and address whatever you think needs to be addressed and repost? Would be nice to have this in 1.1 and I think it's better to have an incomplete description than none. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 2+ messages in thread
* Re: [virtio-dev] Re: [PATCH] Update virtio input device specification 2018-06-20 3:13 ` [virtio-dev] Re: [PATCH] Update virtio input device specification Michael S. Tsirkin @ 2018-08-28 12:05 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 2+ messages in thread From: Michael S. Tsirkin @ 2018-08-28 12:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gerd Hoffmann; +Cc: Ladi Prosek, virtio-dev, Stefan Hajnoczi On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 06:13:35AM +0300, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 03:21:26PM +0200, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > The downside is that this is hard to specify formally, the same way we > > > do other devices. Say we do that and point to a fixed version of the > > > relevant Linux headers and the headers evolve and add or change > > > something. Then we would either go change the spec to be in sync with > > > the headers or build a compatibility layer in the implementation. > > > > Highly unlikely that the structs and ioctls in linux header change. > > It's userspace <=> kernel abi. And even if they change some days it > > would have to happen in a backward compatible way. So I think > > documenting the ioctl structs we have today is reasonable. If new > > ioctls for new device types show up we probably need a virtio feature > > flag anyway to properly support them. > > > > Events (new key codes for example) are added now and then. So for them > > we might continue referencing the include file with the codes instead of > > copying them into the spec. > > > > > because evdev > > > needs to maintain some reasonable backwards compatibility by itself so > > > it's very unlikely that things would break. > > > > Yep. Unknown events can simply be ignored. And you can query the > > device to figure which events (aka keys / axis / ...) are supported > > (ioctl in evdev, config space in virtio). So that level of > > compatibility is already taken care of, in both evdev and virtio. > > > > > > Let's assume linux gains ability to generate new events on top of old > > > > ones. > > > > Do you want to send both in all cases? > > > > If you only send multitouch how do you handle old guests? > > > > If you send both how does new guest know it should > > > > ignore old events? > > > > > > I think that these are valid concerns but they need to be addressed at > > > the evdev layer, not in virtio. > > > > Indeed. And I think multitouch is addressed by simply sending both. > > Apps without multitouch support simply ignore the multitouch events. > > Apps with multitouch support can figure this is a multitouch-capable > > device and ignore the old events on those. > > > > cheers, > > Gerd > > > Gerd is there a chance you could try and address whatever > you think needs to be addressed and repost? > > Would be nice to have this in 1.1 and I think it's better > to have an incomplete description than none. Ping. > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 2+ messages in thread
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2018-06-20 3:13 ` [virtio-dev] Re: [PATCH] Update virtio input device specification Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-08-28 12:05 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
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