Re: [Qemu-devel] [multiprocess RFC PATCH 36/37] multi-process: add the concept description to docs/devel/qemu-multiprocess

["Daniel P. Berrangé" <berrange@redhat.com>]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 03:29:41PM -0800, John G Johnson wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Mar 7, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com> wrote:
> > 
> > On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 02:51:20PM +0000, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> >> I guess one obvious answer is that the existing security mechanisms like
> >> SELinux/ApArmor/DAC can be made to work in a more fine grained manner if
> >> there are distinct processes. This would allow for a more useful seccomp
> >> filter to better protect against secondary kernel exploits should QEMU
> >> itself be exploited, if we can protect individual components.
> > 
> > Fine-grained sandboxing is possible in theory but tedious in practice.
> > From what I can tell this patch series doesn't implement any sandboxing
> > for child processes.
> > 
> 
> 	The policies aren’t in QEMU, but in the selinux config files.
> They would say, for example, that when the QEMU process exec()s the
> disk emulation process, the process security context type transitions
> to a new type.  This type would have permission to access the VM image
> objects, whereas the QEMU process type (and any other device emulation
> process types) cannot access them.

Note that currently all QEMU instances run by libvirt have seccomp
policy applied that explicitly forbids any use of fork+exec as a way
to reduce avenues of attack for an exploited QEMU.

Even in a modularized QEMU I'd be loathe to allow QEMU to have the
fork+exec privileged, unless "QEMU" in this case was just a stub
process that does nothing more than fork+exec the other binaries,
while having zero attack exposed to the untrusted guest OS.

> 	If you wanted to use DAC, you could do the something similar by
> making the disk emulation executable setuid to a UID than can access
> VM image files.
> 
> 	In either case, the policies and permissions are set up before
> libvirt even runs, so it doesn’t need to be aware of them.

That's not the case bearing in mind the above point about fork+exec
being forbidden. It would likely require libvirt to be in charge of
spawning the various helper binaries from a trusted context.


> > How to do this in practice must be clear from the beginning if
> > fine-grained sandboxing is the main selling point.
> > 
> > Some details to start the discussion:
> > 
> > * How will fine-grained SELinux/AppArmor/DAC policies be configured for
> >   each process?  I guess this requires root, so does libvirt need to
> >   know about each process?
> > 
> 
> 	The polices would apply to process security context types (or
> UIDs in a DAC regime), so I would not expect libvirt to be aware of them.

I'm pretty skeptical that such a large modularization of QEMU can be
done without libvirt being aware of it & needing some kind of changes
applied.


Regards,
Daniel
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