From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.stusta.mhn.de (mail.stusta.mhn.de [141.84.69.5]) by mail.openembedded.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2DA37F28F for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 19:56:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.stusta.mhn.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 46Jc2F16gtz3J; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:56:36 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stusta.de; s=default; t=1567022198; bh=RWdrVP/WlPOPSIHjdV+K4oAqCnWWaZodR3ZhWeCviH4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=txF5oqqDIIxdkQLuTTkfwv4cGzvbJwTpYaXmucMAL+a4szgCPUkQk/AYtJlh1P9Wa fem+3NX4OZtehZ1qShJwINtmpfAieevp0d0CY+N+jxjGhu/4NuTFP9BZk1wYyFZDrn Iuyo+l3wkPyCqGybzK+X7G203EnBgpxnMJGERqr4nXtamJMtuXbQw90AU0MPuI1dJr eSXtoh2u9f9v68G8eEJpkrmaTj07MbzXb/MeHVFawAOc6SqLhbSPqZTMSdH+ZJDocR hUQMWyhroZ5uI7B7abgvnZLWU70SMg8XXP4ITw+mIi4NFtci0yyiQBCrTkFt0XNBAV b9Rzk9MkMYi0xnm4Dw/AJwke5irLmJFxxQnY30ve+xRsnFuqGtNUEpZdha3QzzQcGU MSxbZ9+oI5ANZzSUiU7h7TWmNGQXbmWO7vSUJejSOIkotMrFUX3R4xftmOuHQItnci jJh1+OtEnR7MK2aMJlg1xEz/Esmbecw36LR8MDH1xux2XC3JUeNCR88rGEnAZJP+r/ jS8QMhEGsRsIWCutlWAmbICHy4FwJcz4KcOx5IC7U96QI+RkCiYZYOEpY6h8eH0X+I Lv1kViuEdeBMvV39CD3ez6TOFtD0tHFSGAei4iOXze+PdxAv+4Srk0cxpsI8dSUwfi VPqqW9tLEKacpVE55ijanEU0= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 22:56:35 +0300 From: Adrian Bunk To: Khem Raj Message-ID: <20190828195635.GB3044@localhost> References: <20190828034307.182169-1-kai.kang@windriver.com> <20190828180616.GA3044@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Cc: openembeded-devel Subject: Re: [meta-networking][RFC PATCH 0/1] Failed to compile networkmanager with musl X-BeenThere: openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Using the OpenEmbedded metadata to build Distributions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 19:56:39 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 11:53:27AM -0700, Khem Raj wrote: > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 11:06 AM Adrian Bunk wrote: > > > > What about marking networkmanager as incompatible with musl instead of > > maintaining an ever-growing mess? > > > > if the fix is specifically done for musl alone then I would agree, but > in many cases, the fixes > have been cleaning up assumptions in kernel UAPI headers on glibc > provided headers > which is a good thing, and it does take some time for kernel header > changes to flow upstream > but eventually, they do. e.g. see [1] This is not a cleanup, this is a workaround for a misfeature of musl. The kernel userspace headers are the userspace ABI of the kernel for usage by all C libraries provided in one place, they are not tied to any specific C library. musl upstream does not even try to use the kernel userspace headers. The kernel userspace headers used to be a mess, but after more than 10 years of cleanup there is no excuse for musl to insist on providing own definitions of what is already provided by the kernel headers. > > Networkmanager uses parts of systemd as a library and also has own > > glibc-only usages. > > > > Both systemd and networkmanager are fundamentally Linux-only, > > and for systemd it is known that upstream has made the design > > decision to not compromise their software for rare usecases > > with C libraries other than glibc. > > > > AFAIK OE is the only distribution trying to build either of these > > with musl, other musl-using distributions are using less heavyweight > > solutions. > > We should enable as much as possible we can and not go overboard in > supporting everything > except for core packages where it might be ok to put a bit of effort > and upstream the changes > network manager is quite useful in base images eg. xfce images etc >... When you are using networkmanager and xfce in your image, what is the point of using musl instead of glibc? Networkmanager alone has twice the size of glibc. There is a benefit of a small C library when your flash space is single-digit megabytes, but maintaining plenty of not upstreamable OE-only patches for using networkmanager on musl without a sane usecase is a waste of effort. cu Adrian -- "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. "Only a promise," Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed