From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DACB1C49ED7 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B743020830 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727856AbfIMHJn (ORCPT ); Fri, 13 Sep 2019 03:09:43 -0400 Received: from ms.lwn.net ([45.79.88.28]:57676 "EHLO ms.lwn.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727661AbfIMHJn (ORCPT ); Fri, 13 Sep 2019 03:09:43 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ms.lwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D794177D; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:40 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 01:09:37 -0600 From: Jonathan Corbet To: Jens Axboe Cc: Dan Carpenter , Dan Williams , Dave Jiang , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, Vishal Verma , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH v2 3/3] libnvdimm, MAINTAINERS: Maintainer Entry Profile Message-ID: <20190913010937.7fc20d93@lwn.net> In-Reply-To: <9132e214-9b57-07dc-7ee2-f6bc52e960c5@kernel.dk> References: <156821692280.2951081.18036584954940423225.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <156821693963.2951081.11214256396118531359.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <20190911184332.GL20699@kadam> <9132e214-9b57-07dc-7ee2-f6bc52e960c5@kernel.dk> Organization: LWN.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: bpf-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: bpf@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:11:29 -0600 Jens Axboe wrote: > On 9/11/19 12:43 PM, Dan Carpenter wrote: > > > > I kind of hate all this extra documentation because now everyone thinks > > they can invent new hoops to jump through. > > FWIW, I completely agree with Dan (Carpenter) here. I absolutely > dislike having these kinds of files, and with subsystems imposing weird > restrictions on style (like the quoted example, yuck). > > Additionally, it would seem saner to standardize rules around when > code is expected to hit the maintainers hands for kernel releases. Both > yours and Martins deals with that, there really shouldn't be the need > to have this specified in detail per sub-system. This sort of objection came up at the maintainers summit yesterday; the consensus was that, while we might not like subsystem-specific rules, they do currently exist and we're just documenting reality. To paraphrase Phillip K. Dick, reality is that which, when you refuse to document it, doesn't go away. So I'm expecting to take this kind of stuff into Documentation/. My own personal hope is that it can maybe serve to shame some of these "local quirks" out of existence. The evidence from this brief discussion suggests that this might indeed happen. Thanks, jon From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48EC5C49ED7 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.linuxfoundation.org (mail.linuxfoundation.org [140.211.169.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29BF020830 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:45 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 29BF020830 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=lwn.net Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org Received: from mail.linux-foundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B761723; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2565340B for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from ms.lwn.net (ms.lwn.net [45.79.88.28]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2212281A for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ms.lwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D794177D; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:40 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 01:09:37 -0600 From: Jonathan Corbet To: Jens Axboe Message-ID: <20190913010937.7fc20d93@lwn.net> In-Reply-To: <9132e214-9b57-07dc-7ee2-f6bc52e960c5@kernel.dk> References: <156821692280.2951081.18036584954940423225.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <156821693963.2951081.11214256396118531359.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <20190911184332.GL20699@kadam> <9132e214-9b57-07dc-7ee2-f6bc52e960c5@kernel.dk> Organization: LWN.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Dave Jiang , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, Vishal Verma , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org, Dan Carpenter Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH v2 3/3] libnvdimm, MAINTAINERS: Maintainer Entry Profile X-BeenThere: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org Errors-To: ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:11:29 -0600 Jens Axboe wrote: > On 9/11/19 12:43 PM, Dan Carpenter wrote: > > > > I kind of hate all this extra documentation because now everyone thinks > > they can invent new hoops to jump through. > > FWIW, I completely agree with Dan (Carpenter) here. I absolutely > dislike having these kinds of files, and with subsystems imposing weird > restrictions on style (like the quoted example, yuck). > > Additionally, it would seem saner to standardize rules around when > code is expected to hit the maintainers hands for kernel releases. Both > yours and Martins deals with that, there really shouldn't be the need > to have this specified in detail per sub-system. This sort of objection came up at the maintainers summit yesterday; the consensus was that, while we might not like subsystem-specific rules, they do currently exist and we're just documenting reality. To paraphrase Phillip K. Dick, reality is that which, when you refuse to document it, doesn't go away. So I'm expecting to take this kind of stuff into Documentation/. My own personal hope is that it can maybe serve to shame some of these "local quirks" out of existence. The evidence from this brief discussion suggests that this might indeed happen. Thanks, jon _______________________________________________ Ksummit-discuss mailing list Ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ksummit-discuss From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D06C4CEC5 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ml01.01.org (ml01.01.org [198.145.21.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8ABF220830 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:45 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 8ABF220830 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=lwn.net Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-nvdimm-bounces@lists.01.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ml01.01.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8131C202E840E; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 00:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=45.79.88.28; helo=ms.lwn.net; envelope-from=corbet@lwn.net; receiver=linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org Received: from ms.lwn.net (ms.lwn.net [45.79.88.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ml01.01.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 032F1202C80B4 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 00:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ms.lwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D794177D; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 07:09:40 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 01:09:37 -0600 From: Jonathan Corbet To: Jens Axboe Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH v2 3/3] libnvdimm, MAINTAINERS: Maintainer Entry Profile Message-ID: <20190913010937.7fc20d93@lwn.net> In-Reply-To: <9132e214-9b57-07dc-7ee2-f6bc52e960c5@kernel.dk> References: <156821692280.2951081.18036584954940423225.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <156821693963.2951081.11214256396118531359.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <20190911184332.GL20699@kadam> <9132e214-9b57-07dc-7ee2-f6bc52e960c5@kernel.dk> Organization: LWN.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Linux-nvdimm developer list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org, Dan Carpenter Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: linux-nvdimm-bounces@lists.01.org Sender: "Linux-nvdimm" On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:11:29 -0600 Jens Axboe wrote: > On 9/11/19 12:43 PM, Dan Carpenter wrote: > > > > I kind of hate all this extra documentation because now everyone thinks > > they can invent new hoops to jump through. > > FWIW, I completely agree with Dan (Carpenter) here. I absolutely > dislike having these kinds of files, and with subsystems imposing weird > restrictions on style (like the quoted example, yuck). > > Additionally, it would seem saner to standardize rules around when > code is expected to hit the maintainers hands for kernel releases. Both > yours and Martins deals with that, there really shouldn't be the need > to have this specified in detail per sub-system. This sort of objection came up at the maintainers summit yesterday; the consensus was that, while we might not like subsystem-specific rules, they do currently exist and we're just documenting reality. To paraphrase Phillip K. Dick, reality is that which, when you refuse to document it, doesn't go away. So I'm expecting to take this kind of stuff into Documentation/. My own personal hope is that it can maybe serve to shame some of these "local quirks" out of existence. The evidence from this brief discussion suggests that this might indeed happen. Thanks, jon _______________________________________________ Linux-nvdimm mailing list Linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvdimm