From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.3 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BDA1C43331 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ml01.01.org (ml01.01.org [198.145.21.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A1C3206F8 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:11:02 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 1A1C3206F8 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=kaod.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-nvdimm-bounces@lists.01.org Received: from ml01.vlan13.01.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ml01.01.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C47510FC6F0B; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 04:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=188.165.44.50; helo=5.mo4.mail-out.ovh.net; envelope-from=groug@kaod.org; receiver= Received: from 5.mo4.mail-out.ovh.net (5.mo4.mail-out.ovh.net [188.165.44.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ml01.01.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C460E10FC6CDA for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 04:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from player697.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.110.171.148]) by mo4.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2434B22B011 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:10:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from kaod.org (lns-bzn-46-82-253-208-248.adsl.proxad.net [82.253.208.248]) (Authenticated sender: groug@kaod.org) by player697.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AEBE3110DE660; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:10:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:10:12 +0200 From: Greg Kurz To: Michael Ellerman Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 00/25] Add support for OpenCAPI Persistent Memory devices Message-ID: <20200402131012.579c7bf7@bahia.lan> In-Reply-To: <87bloatd6e.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> References: <20200327071202.2159885-1-alastair@d-silva.org> <2d6901d60877$16aa7a90$43ff6fb0$@d-silva.org> <87imiituxm.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> <87bloatd6e.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 14428970257110833585 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -51 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrtdeggdefudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenogfuuhhsphgvtghtffhomhgrihhnucdlgeelmdenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkjghfofggtgfgsehtjeertdertddvnecuhfhrohhmpefirhgvghcumfhurhiiuceoghhrohhugheskhgrohgurdhorhhgqeenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhgihhthhhusgdrihhonecukfhppedtrddtrddtrddtpdekvddrvdehfedrvddtkedrvdegkeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdqohhuthdphhgvlhhopehplhgrhigvrheileejrdhhrgdrohhvhhdrnhgvthdpihhnvghtpedtrddtrddtrddtpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepghhrohhugheskhgrohgurdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtoheplhhinhhugidqnhhvughimhhmsehlihhsthhsrddtuddrohhrgh Message-ID-Hash: PH3KFVY6QWSLGZ3ZR7I4Y6CL6UZJDDHD X-Message-ID-Hash: PH3KFVY6QWSLGZ3ZR7I4Y6CL6UZJDDHD X-MailFrom: groug@kaod.org X-Mailman-Rule-Hits: nonmember-moderation X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation CC: Alastair D'Silva , "Aneesh Kumar K . V , Benjamin Herrenschmidt" , Paul Mackerras , Frederic Barrat , Andrew Donnellan , Arnd Bergmann , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Andrew Morton , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , "David S. Miller" , Rob Herring , Anton Blanchard , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Mahesh Salgaonkar , Madhavan Srinivasan , =?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYw==?= Le Goater , Anju T Sudhakar , Hari Bathini , Thomas Gleixner , Nicholas Piggin , Masahiro Yamada , Alexey Kardashevskiy , Linux Kernel Mailing Lis t , linuxppc-dev , linux-nvdimm , Linux MM X-Mailman-Version: 3.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Linux-nvdimm developer list." Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 21:06:01 +1100 Michael Ellerman wrote: > "Oliver O'Halloran" writes: > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 2:42 PM Michael Ellerman wrote: > >> "Alastair D'Silva" writes: > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Dan Williams > >> >> > >> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 10:23 PM Alastair D'Silva > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > *snip* > >> >> Are OPAL calls similar to ACPI DSMs? I.e. methods for the OS to invoke > >> >> platform firmware services? What's Skiboot? > >> > > >> > Yes, OPAL is the interface to firmware for POWER. Skiboot is the open-source (and only) implementation of OPAL. > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot > >> > >> In particular the tokens for calls are defined here: > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot/blob/master/include/opal-api.h#L220 > >> > >> And you can grep for the token to find the implementation: > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot/blob/master/hw/npu2-opencapi.c#L2328 > > > > I'm not sure I'd encourage anyone to read npu2-opencapi.c. I find it > > hard enough to follow even with access to the workbooks. > > Compared to certain firmwares that run on certain other platforms it's > actually pretty readable code ;) > Forth rocks ! ;-) > > There's an OPAL call API reference here: > > http://open-power.github.io/skiboot/doc/opal-api/index.html > > Even better. > > cheers _______________________________________________ Linux-nvdimm mailing list -- linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org To unsubscribe send an email to linux-nvdimm-leave@lists.01.org From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.2 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED, USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8587C43331 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:42:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.ozlabs.org (lists.ozlabs.org [203.11.71.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10B6C206E9 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:42:39 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 10B6C206E9 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=kaod.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=linuxppc-dev-bounces+linuxppc-dev=archiver.kernel.org@lists.ozlabs.org Received: from lists.ozlabs.org (lists.ozlabs.org [IPv6:2401:3900:2:1::3]) by lists.ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48tPQ50QrszDrRy for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 00:42:37 +1100 (AEDT) Authentication-Results: lists.ozlabs.org; spf=pass (sender SPF authorized) smtp.mailfrom=kaod.org (client-ip=46.105.57.200; helo=7.mo3.mail-out.ovh.net; envelope-from=groug@kaod.org; receiver=) Authentication-Results: lists.ozlabs.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=kaod.org X-Greylist: delayed 4201 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at bilbo; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 00:37:58 AEDT Received: from 7.mo3.mail-out.ovh.net (7.mo3.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.57.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48tPJk6fPQzDrPP for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 00:37:54 +1100 (AEDT) Received: from player697.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.110.208.43]) by mo3.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A14D24B25E for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:10:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from kaod.org (lns-bzn-46-82-253-208-248.adsl.proxad.net [82.253.208.248]) (Authenticated sender: groug@kaod.org) by player697.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AEBE3110DE660; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:10:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:10:12 +0200 From: Greg Kurz To: Michael Ellerman Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 00/25] Add support for OpenCAPI Persistent Memory devices Message-ID: <20200402131012.579c7bf7@bahia.lan> In-Reply-To: <87bloatd6e.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> References: <20200327071202.2159885-1-alastair@d-silva.org> <2d6901d60877$16aa7a90$43ff6fb0$@d-silva.org> <87imiituxm.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> <87bloatd6e.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 14428970257110833585 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -51 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrtdeggdefudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenogfuuhhsphgvtghtffhomhgrihhnucdlgeelmdenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkjghfofggtgfgsehtjeertdertddvnecuhfhrohhmpefirhgvghcumfhurhiiuceoghhrohhugheskhgrohgurdhorhhgqeenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhgihhthhhusgdrihhonecukfhppedtrddtrddtrddtpdekvddrvdehfedrvddtkedrvdegkeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdqohhuthdphhgvlhhopehplhgrhigvrheileejrdhhrgdrohhvhhdrnhgvthdpihhnvghtpedtrddtrddtrddtpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepghhrohhugheskhgrohgurdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtoheplhhinhhugihpphgtqdguvghvsehlihhsthhsrdhoiihlrggsshdrohhrgh X-BeenThere: linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux on PowerPC Developers Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Madhavan Srinivasan , Alexey Kardashevskiy , Mahesh Salgaonkar , Masahiro Yamada , Oliver O'Halloran , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , Ira Weiny , Thomas Gleixner , Rob Herring , Dave Jiang , linux-nvdimm , "Aneesh Kumar K . V" , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Anju T Sudhakar , Alastair D'Silva , Andrew Donnellan , Arnd Bergmann , Nicholas Piggin , =?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYw==?= Le Goater , Dan Williams , Hari Bathini , Linux MM , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Vishal Verma , Frederic Barrat , Paul Mackerras , Andrew Morton , linuxppc-dev , "David S. Miller" Errors-To: linuxppc-dev-bounces+linuxppc-dev=archiver.kernel.org@lists.ozlabs.org Sender: "Linuxppc-dev" On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 21:06:01 +1100 Michael Ellerman wrote: > "Oliver O'Halloran" writes: > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 2:42 PM Michael Ellerman wrote: > >> "Alastair D'Silva" writes: > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Dan Williams > >> >> > >> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 10:23 PM Alastair D'Silva > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > *snip* > >> >> Are OPAL calls similar to ACPI DSMs? I.e. methods for the OS to invoke > >> >> platform firmware services? What's Skiboot? > >> > > >> > Yes, OPAL is the interface to firmware for POWER. Skiboot is the open-source (and only) implementation of OPAL. > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot > >> > >> In particular the tokens for calls are defined here: > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot/blob/master/include/opal-api.h#L220 > >> > >> And you can grep for the token to find the implementation: > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot/blob/master/hw/npu2-opencapi.c#L2328 > > > > I'm not sure I'd encourage anyone to read npu2-opencapi.c. I find it > > hard enough to follow even with access to the workbooks. > > Compared to certain firmwares that run on certain other platforms it's > actually pretty readable code ;) > Forth rocks ! ;-) > > There's an OPAL call API reference here: > > http://open-power.github.io/skiboot/doc/opal-api/index.html > > Even better. > > cheers From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.3 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B4AC43331 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:10:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA18206D3 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:10:58 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org ACA18206D3 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=kaod.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id 1539B8E0008; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id 104A78E0007; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:10:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id F34F18E0008; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:10:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0191.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.191]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92C48E0007 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin27.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay01.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2042180AD80F for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:10:57 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 76662647754.27.juice01_7cb469dbf8914 X-HE-Tag: juice01_7cb469dbf8914 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5139 Received: from 9.mo69.mail-out.ovh.net (9.mo69.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.56.78]) by imf09.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:10:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from player697.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.108.54.97]) by mo69.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1BA8AE93 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:10:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from kaod.org (lns-bzn-46-82-253-208-248.adsl.proxad.net [82.253.208.248]) (Authenticated sender: groug@kaod.org) by player697.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AEBE3110DE660; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:10:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:10:12 +0200 From: Greg Kurz To: Michael Ellerman Cc: Oliver O'Halloran , Alastair D'Silva , Dan Williams , "Aneesh Kumar K . V" , Benjamin Herrenschmidt , Paul Mackerras , Frederic Barrat , Andrew Donnellan , Arnd Bergmann , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Vishal Verma , Dave Jiang , Ira Weiny , Andrew Morton , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , "David S. Miller" , Rob Herring , Anton Blanchard , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Mahesh Salgaonkar , Madhavan Srinivasan , =?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYw==?= Le Goater , Anju T Sudhakar , Hari Bathini , Thomas Gleixner , Nicholas Piggin , Masahiro Yamada , Alexey Kardashevskiy , Linux Kernel Mailing List , linuxppc-dev , linux-nvdimm , Linux MM Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 00/25] Add support for OpenCAPI Persistent Memory devices Message-ID: <20200402131012.579c7bf7@bahia.lan> In-Reply-To: <87bloatd6e.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> References: <20200327071202.2159885-1-alastair@d-silva.org> <2d6901d60877$16aa7a90$43ff6fb0$@d-silva.org> <87imiituxm.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> <87bloatd6e.fsf@mpe.ellerman.id.au> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 14428970257110833585 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -51 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrtdeggdefudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenogfuuhhsphgvtghtffhomhgrihhnucdlgeelmdenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkjghfofggtgfgsehtjeertdertddvnecuhfhrohhmpefirhgvghcumfhurhiiuceoghhrohhugheskhgrohgurdhorhhgqeenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhgihhthhhusgdrihhonecukfhppedtrddtrddtrddtpdekvddrvdehfedrvddtkedrvdegkeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdqohhuthdphhgvlhhopehplhgrhigvrheileejrdhhrgdrohhvhhdrnhgvthdpihhnvghtpedtrddtrddtrddtpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepghhrohhugheskhgrohgurdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtoheplhhinhhugidqmhhmsehkvhgrtghkrdhorhhg X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 21:06:01 +1100 Michael Ellerman wrote: > "Oliver O'Halloran" writes: > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 2:42 PM Michael Ellerman wrote: > >> "Alastair D'Silva" writes: > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Dan Williams > >> >> > >> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 10:23 PM Alastair D'Silva > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > *snip* > >> >> Are OPAL calls similar to ACPI DSMs? I.e. methods for the OS to invoke > >> >> platform firmware services? What's Skiboot? > >> > > >> > Yes, OPAL is the interface to firmware for POWER. Skiboot is the open-source (and only) implementation of OPAL. > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot > >> > >> In particular the tokens for calls are defined here: > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot/blob/master/include/opal-api.h#L220 > >> > >> And you can grep for the token to find the implementation: > >> > >> https://github.com/open-power/skiboot/blob/master/hw/npu2-opencapi.c#L2328 > > > > I'm not sure I'd encourage anyone to read npu2-opencapi.c. I find it > > hard enough to follow even with access to the workbooks. > > Compared to certain firmwares that run on certain other platforms it's > actually pretty readable code ;) > Forth rocks ! ;-) > > There's an OPAL call API reference here: > > http://open-power.github.io/skiboot/doc/opal-api/index.html > > Even better. > > cheers