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[109.65.116.225]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k12sm5059326wrn.39.2020.09.18.05.34.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 18 Sep 2020 05:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 08:34:37 -0400 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Sean Christopherson Cc: Vitaly Kuznetsov , Peter Xu , kvm@vger.kernel.org, Paolo Bonzini , Wanpeng Li , Jim Mattson , Julia Suvorova , Andy Lutomirski , Andrew Jones , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Gerd Hoffmann Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/3] KVM: x86: KVM_MEM_PCI_HOLE memory Message-ID: <20200918083134-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20200825212526.GC8235@xz-x1> <87eenlwoaa.fsf@vitty.brq.redhat.com> <20200901200021.GB3053@xz-x1> <877dtcpn9z.fsf@vitty.brq.redhat.com> <20200904061210.GA22435@sjchrist-ice> <20200904072905.vbkiq3h762fyzds6@sirius.home.kraxel.org> <20200904160008.GA2206@sjchrist-ice> <874koanfsc.fsf@vitty.brq.redhat.com> <20200907072829-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20200911170031.GD4344@sjchrist-ice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200911170031.GD4344@sjchrist-ice> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: kvm@vger.kernel.org On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 10:00:31AM -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote: > On Mon, Sep 07, 2020 at 07:32:23AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 07, 2020 at 10:37:39AM +0200, Vitaly Kuznetsov wrote: > > > Sean Christopherson writes: > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 09:29:05AM +0200, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > > > >> Hi, > > > >> > > > >> > Unless I'm mistaken, microvm doesn't even support PCI, does it? > > > >> > > > >> Correct, no pci support right now. > > > >> > > > >> We could probably wire up ecam (arm/virt style) for pcie support, once > > > >> the acpi support for mictovm finally landed (we need acpi for that > > > >> because otherwise the kernel wouldn't find the pcie bus). > > > >> > > > >> Question is whenever there is a good reason to do so. Why would someone > > > >> prefer microvm with pcie support over q35? > > > >> > > > >> > If all of the above is true, this can be handled by adding "pci=lastbus=0" > > > >> > as a guest kernel param to override its scanning of buses. And couldn't > > > >> > that be done by QEMU's microvm_fix_kernel_cmdline() to make it transparent > > > >> > to the end user? > > > >> > > > >> microvm_fix_kernel_cmdline() is a hack, not a solution. > > > >> > > > >> Beside that I doubt this has much of an effect on microvm because > > > >> it doesn't support pcie in the first place. > > > > > > > > I am so confused. Vitaly, can you clarify exactly what QEMU VM type this > > > > series is intended to help? If this is for microvm, then why is the guest > > > > doing PCI scanning in the first place? If it's for q35, why is the > > > > justification for microvm-like workloads? > > > > > > I'm not exactly sure about the plans for particular machine types, the > > > intention was to use this for pcie in QEMU in general so whatever > > > machine type uses pcie will benefit. > > > > > > Now, it seems that we have a more sophisticated landscape. The > > > optimization will only make sense to speed up boot so all 'traditional' > > > VM types with 'traditional' firmware are out of > > > question. 'Container-like' VMs seem to avoid PCI for now, I'm not sure > > > if it's because they're in early stages of their development, because > > > they can get away without PCI or, actually, because of slowness at boot > > > (which we're trying to tackle with this feature). I'd definitely like to > > > hear more what people think about this. > > > > I suspect microvms will need pci eventually. I would much rather KVM > > had an exit-less discovery mechanism in place by then because > > learning from history if it doesn't they will do some kind of > > hack on the kernel command line, and everyone will be stuck > > supporting that for years ... > > Is it not an option for the VMM to "accurately" enumerate the number of buses? > E.g. if the VMM has devices on only bus 0, then enumerate that there is one > bus so that the guest doesn't try and probe devices that can't possibly exist. > Or is that completely non-sensical and/or violate PCIe spec? There is some tension here, in that one way to make guest boot faster is to defer hotplug of devices until after it booted. -- MST