Re: ucontext, kernel vs. userspace (glibc)

[Szabolcs Nagy <szabolcs.nagy@arm.com>]

The 09/03/2021 17:14, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-09-02 at 13:42 +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 08:40:03PM +1000, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> > 
> > > So I'm discovering arm64 intricacies and today, as I was looking at SVE
> > > support (in the context of distro glibc backports.. don't ask), I
> > > noticed that glibc has no provision for dealing with kernel generated
> > > ucontext's in its {get,set,swap}_context functions...
> > > (It says so explicitly in the code unless I misunderstood).
> > > So one thing we did to "solve" this on ppc64 a while ago was to create
> > > a swapcontext syscall which can operate as all 3 operations (you can
> > > have NULL arguments), which also handles the sigprocmask (bonus:
> > > atomically with the context get/set from a userspace perspective).
> > > Would it make sense to do something similar on aarch64 ? (And have
> > > glibc then exploit it).
> > 
> > I think the usefulness of such an interface is mainly a question for
> > userspace - I don't immediately see any issue with implementing it if
> > it's useful to people.
> 
> Well, the problem as far as I can tell is that the glibc implementation
> of these today. They support "FPSIMD" but that's about it (so no SVE or
> anything else) along with a comment:
> 
> 	/* Check for FP SIMD context.  We don't support restoring
> 	   contexts created by the kernel, so this context must have
> 	   been created by getcontext.  Hence we can rely on the
> 	   first extension block being the FP SIMD context.  */
> 
> That said, a bit of reading around seems to indicate that the
> expecation of being able to setcontext() back to a signal handler
> generated context has been deprecated by the standard and broken on x86
> for a while in Linux, so I suppose that is less of an issue.

yes, setcontext is not expected to work with kernel
context.

> 
> That said, there is still some advantage in letting the kernel
> implement these as it would allow the kernel to support various
> "extensions" such as SVE (as long as there is room) transparently
> without having to change glibc.
> 
> In fact, isn't it possible for glibc to define its own ucontext
> structure for applications to use that can potentially have a larger
> reserved area ? By passing that size to the syscall, you can
> essentially get userspace ready for future extensions... within limits.

i think this can be a discussion for libc-alpha, but
i don't think there is interest in using the libc
context functions with kernel signal contexts,
that turned out to be problematic historically.
but if there is a use-case that can be discussed.

> 
> > > The hard-to-solve thing is the case where the SVE context spills
> > > outside of the ucontext itself, in the extra room on the stack, since
> > > programs that "now" about ucontext will not have allocated space for
> > > that, so that's more/less a lost cause already.
> > 
> > You can figure out the maximum possible size for a context so it would
> > be possible to define a mechanism for pointing to extra data I guess but
> > yeah, it's going to be a problem when we start seeing systems with large
> > enough register state.
> 
> Extra data for userspace generated ucontext's isn't going to fly much,
> there's really no "place" to put it (those things can be part of
> structures etc...) and no "hook" to allocate/free sub structures.
> 
> So you need whatever struct ucontext is used in userspace to be big
> enough.
> 
> That said, I think the current one might be enough for sve512 (I need
> to check) and we could have glibc define something much bigger (16KB ?)
> without much damage I suspect.
> 
> Nagyu ? What do you think ?

i think we only want to change set/get/swapcontext
if there is a use-case for this. currently only
a small bit of fp state has to be saved/restored.
and there can be security concerns since we have
features like bti that limits where one can jump
(arbitrary pc in setcontext does not work).

> 
> Cheers,
> Ben.
> 

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