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Tsirkin" To: Si-Wei Liu Subject: Re: vdpa legacy guest support (was Re: [PATCH] vdpa/mlx5: set_features should allow reset to zero) Message-ID: <20211214000245-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <3ff5fd23-1db0-2f95-4cf9-711ef403fb62@oracle.com> <20210224000057-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <52836a63-4e00-ff58-50fb-9f450ce968d7@oracle.com> <20210228163031-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <2cb51a6d-afa0-7cd1-d6f2-6b153186eaca@redhat.com> <20210302043419-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <178f8ea7-cebd-0e81-3dc7-10a058d22c07@redhat.com> <20211212042311-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=mst@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Disposition: inline Cc: netdev@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, elic@nvidia.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org X-BeenThere: virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org 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u4mr3227076wrt.91.1639458371678; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 21:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from redhat.com ([2a03:c5c0:207d:b931:2ce5:ef76:2d17:5466]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s18sm948675wrb.91.2021.12.13.21.06.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 13 Dec 2021 21:06:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 00:06:04 -0500 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Si-Wei Liu Cc: Jason Wang , elic@nvidia.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: vdpa legacy guest support (was Re: [PATCH] vdpa/mlx5: set_features should allow reset to zero) Message-ID: <20211214000245-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <3ff5fd23-1db0-2f95-4cf9-711ef403fb62@oracle.com> <20210224000057-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <52836a63-4e00-ff58-50fb-9f450ce968d7@oracle.com> <20210228163031-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <2cb51a6d-afa0-7cd1-d6f2-6b153186eaca@redhat.com> <20210302043419-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <178f8ea7-cebd-0e81-3dc7-10a058d22c07@redhat.com> <20211212042311-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 05:59:45PM -0800, Si-Wei Liu wrote: > > > On 12/12/2021 1:26 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 05:44:15PM -0800, Si-Wei Liu wrote: > > > Sorry for reviving this ancient thread. I was kinda lost for the conclusion > > > it ended up with. I have the following questions, > > > > > > 1. legacy guest support: from the past conversations it doesn't seem the > > > support will be completely dropped from the table, is my understanding > > > correct? Actually we're interested in supporting virtio v0.95 guest for x86, > > > which is backed by the spec at > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ozlabs.org/*rusty/virtio-spec/virtio-0.9.5.pdf__;fg!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!dTKmzJwwRsFM7BtSuTDu1cNly5n4XCotH0WYmidzGqHSXt40i7ZU43UcNg7GYxZg$ . Though I'm not sure > > > if there's request/need to support wilder legacy virtio versions earlier > > > beyond. > > I personally feel it's less work to add in kernel than try to > > work around it in userspace. Jason feels differently. > > Maybe post the patches and this will prove to Jason it's not > > too terrible? > I suppose if the vdpa vendor does support 0.95 in the datapath and ring > layout level and is limited to x86 only, there should be easy way out. Note a subtle difference: what matters is that guest, not host is x86. Matters for emulators which might reorder memory accesses. I guess this enforcement belongs in QEMU then? > I > checked with Eli and other Mellanox/NVDIA folks for hardware/firmware level > 0.95 support, it seems all the ingredient had been there already dated back > to the DPDK days. The only major thing limiting is in the vDPA software that > the current vdpa core has the assumption around VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM for > a few DMA setup ops, which is virtio 1.0 only. > > > > > > 2. suppose some form of legacy guest support needs to be there, how do we > > > deal with the bogus assumption below in vdpa_get_config() in the short term? > > > It looks one of the intuitive fix is to move the vdpa_set_features call out > > > of vdpa_get_config() to vdpa_set_config(). > > > > > >         /* > > >          * Config accesses aren't supposed to trigger before features are > > > set. > > >          * If it does happen we assume a legacy guest. > > >          */ > > >         if (!vdev->features_valid) > > >                 vdpa_set_features(vdev, 0); > > >         ops->get_config(vdev, offset, buf, len); > > > > > > I can post a patch to fix 2) if there's consensus already reached. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -Siwei > > I'm not sure how important it is to change that. > > In any case it only affects transitional devices, right? > > Legacy only should not care ... > Yes I'd like to distinguish legacy driver (suppose it is 0.95) against the > modern one in a transitional device model rather than being legacy only. > That way a v0.95 and v1.0 supporting vdpa parent can support both types of > guests without having to reconfigure. Or are you suggesting limit to legacy > only at the time of vdpa creation would simplify the implementation a lot? > > Thanks, > -Siwei I don't know for sure. Take a look at the work Halil was doing to try and support transitional devices with BE guests. > > > > > On 3/2/2021 2:53 AM, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > On 2021/3/2 5:47 下午, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Mar 01, 2021 at 11:56:50AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > > > On 2021/3/1 5:34 上午, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 10:24:41AM -0800, Si-Wei Liu wrote: > > > > > > > > > Detecting it isn't enough though, we will need a new ioctl to notify > > > > > > > > > the kernel that it's a legacy guest. Ugh :( > > > > > > > > Well, although I think adding an ioctl is doable, may I > > > > > > > > know what the use > > > > > > > > case there will be for kernel to leverage such info > > > > > > > > directly? Is there a > > > > > > > > case QEMU can't do with dedicate ioctls later if there's indeed > > > > > > > > differentiation (legacy v.s. modern) needed? > > > > > > > BTW a good API could be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #define VHOST_SET_ENDIAN _IOW(VHOST_VIRTIO, ?, int) > > > > > > > #define VHOST_GET_ENDIAN _IOW(VHOST_VIRTIO, ?, int) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we did it per vring but maybe that was a mistake ... > > > > > > Actually, I wonder whether it's good time to just not support > > > > > > legacy driver > > > > > > for vDPA. Consider: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) It's definition is no-normative > > > > > > 2) A lot of budren of codes > > > > > > > > > > > > So qemu can still present the legacy device since the config > > > > > > space or other > > > > > > stuffs that is presented by vhost-vDPA is not expected to be > > > > > > accessed by > > > > > > guest directly. Qemu can do the endian conversion when necessary > > > > > > in this > > > > > > case? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > Overall I would be fine with this approach but we need to avoid breaking > > > > > working userspace, qemu releases with vdpa support are out there and > > > > > seem to work for people. Any changes need to take that into account > > > > > and document compatibility concerns. > > > > > > > > Agree, let me check. > > > > > > > > > > > > >   I note that any hardware > > > > > implementation is already broken for legacy except on platforms with > > > > > strong ordering which might be helpful in reducing the scope. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > >