From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1nZSkM-00076I-3j for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 03:28:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59672) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nZSkI-000769-SK for grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 03:27:59 -0400 Received: from cavan.codon.org.uk ([176.126.240.207]:59536) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nZSkH-00070C-4w for grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 03:27:58 -0400 Received: by cavan.codon.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4449D40A71; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 08:27:55 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 08:27:55 +0100 From: Matthew Garrett To: Ard Biesheuvel Cc: Daniel Kiper , Alec Brown , Kanth Ghatraju , Ross Philipson , "dpsmith@apertussolutions.com" , "piotr.krol@3mdeb.com" , "krystian.hebel@3mdeb.com" , "persaur@gmail.com" , "Yoder, Stuart" , Andrew Cooper , "michal.zygowski@3mdeb.com" , James Bottomley , "lukasz@hawrylko.pl" , linux-efi , Linux Kernel Mailing List , The development of GNU GRUB , Kees Cook Subject: Re: Linux DRTM on UEFI platforms Message-ID: <20220330072755.GA1169@srcf.ucam.org> References: <20220329174057.GA17778@srcf.ucam.org> <20220330071103.GA809@srcf.ucam.org> <20220330071859.GA992@srcf.ucam.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=176.126.240.207; envelope-from=mjg59@codon.org.uk; helo=cavan.codon.org.uk X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 07:27:59 -0000 On Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 09:23:17AM +0200, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 09:19, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > From a conceptual perspective we've thought of the EFI stub as being > > logically part of the bootloader rather than the early kernel, and the > > bootloader is a point where the line is drawn. My guy feeling is that > > jumping into the secure kernel environment before EBS has been called is > > likely to end badly. > > If you jump back into the system firmware, sure. > > But the point I was trying to make is that you can replace that with > your own minimal implementation of EFI that just exposes a memory map > and some protocols and nothing else, and then the secure launch kernel > would be entirely in charge of the execution environment. We can't just replace system firmware with an imitation of the same - for instance, configuring the cold boot prevention memory overwrite requires us to pass a variable through to the real firmware, and that's something that we do in the stub.