From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1o9g2o-0001Nj-Ka for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 00:56:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41066) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o9g2m-0001NY-MR for grub-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 00:56:44 -0400 Received: from cavan.codon.org.uk ([176.126.240.207]:40520) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o9g2k-0005i2-4X for grub-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 00:56:44 -0400 Received: by cavan.codon.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3424340A61; Fri, 8 Jul 2022 05:56:38 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 05:56:38 +0100 From: Matthew Garrett To: Brendan Trotter Cc: "Daniel P. Smith" , The development of GNU GRUB , Ard Biesheuvel , Daniel Kiper , Alec Brown , Kanth Ghatraju , Ross Philipson , "piotr.krol@3mdeb.com" , "krystian.hebel@3mdeb.com" , "persaur@gmail.com" , "Yoder, Stuart" , Andrew Cooper , "michal.zygowski@3mdeb.com" , James Bottomley , "lukasz@hawrylko.pl" , linux-efi@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, James Morris Subject: Re: Linux DRTM on UEFI platforms Message-ID: <20220708045638.GA27939@srcf.ucam.org> References: <20220329174057.GA17778@srcf.ucam.org> <7aab2990-9c57-2456-b08d-299ae96ac919@apertussolutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=176.126.240.207; envelope-from=mjg59@codon.org.uk; helo=cavan.codon.org.uk X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2022 04:56:44 -0000 On Fri, Jul 08, 2022 at 01:06:19PM +0930, Brendan Trotter wrote: > This leaves me wondering what your true motivation is. Are you trying > to benefit GRUB/Trenchboot (at the expense of security, end-user > convenience, distro installer hassle, etc); or trying to manufacture > scope for future man-in-the middle attacks (by promoting a solution > that requires something between firmware and kernel)? The described mechanism doesn't require trusting the code that's in the middle - if the state is perturbed by this code, the measurements will be different, and the system will be untrusted. I agree that this implementation is more complicated than just leaving it all up to the kernel, but I'm having a *lot* of trouble seeing how this has any impact on its security. Jumping immediately to impugning the motivation of the people involved is entirely inappropriate.