From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from alsa0.perex.cz (alsa0.perex.cz [77.48.224.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5B56C433EF for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 22:05:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alsa1.perex.cz (alsa1.perex.cz [207.180.221.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa0.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A475716C0; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 00:04:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa0.perex.cz A475716C0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=alsa-project.org; s=default; t=1658181920; bh=3JxZkLM8MBszfDbDjwosYrF471wfmGyjogJnExYKUPY=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:List-Id: List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe: From; b=a1o3qS9MXyj0z/e0xLNvAr8NRRBtwK7KIP3QfLubcgYcsPL8o9Wbx8u4O0WGbahv0 /vdEtfSnYaUaDvA+W3cb7NTIbpT4biAm1B6bSfo4OuHbE9wLR7xhHhHZlt3CvdSJNh l0lPjuOAcVAyC6Ayr2F+WdhZqDhZFyOTGsA1QYZ8= Received: from alsa1.perex.cz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360FAF80430; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 00:04:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix, from userid 50401) id 4B0BCF80508; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 00:04:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ams.source.kernel.org (ams.source.kernel.org [IPv6:2604:1380:4601:e00::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DAB9F800F5 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 00:04:22 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa1.perex.cz 3DAB9F800F5 Authentication-Results: alsa1.perex.cz; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="BSlcJtet" Received: from smtp.kernel.org (relay.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ams.source.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 668A0B8167A; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 22:04:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F0E7DC341C0; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 22:04:16 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1658181860; bh=3JxZkLM8MBszfDbDjwosYrF471wfmGyjogJnExYKUPY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=BSlcJtetWKT66UYJ5KpIsH1zskh3T2ZqU/URAT5Y8TZeNrDkyU4XdYFBS1UCq8HGs OeAcEtyYH5QPq1S0Yf81A5dfERgEQxdiY1nFXXqysSevgo4VJ10WCEzxjCSTsywggx 5o3XEpBmhlD+Mj4w7jqRwz28mrK0Ev4Pvv7VC/qnVVpXS6vgAgZnf3vmjMzM//0TM+ m2PNihIHQjQ8iDbkBmz1rc3GpaRWbkpAqP8iOcdqqB4t+W5qDj3Ykk/sudVMnTAfSN MIStUtpzJ2s7xfcOgw526ZqsCKTTUvFKUQGKMYkCj01RTmOKRLDqptGyKlWg1k0DIr kQpGkmvYq8x6g== Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 15:04:14 -0700 From: Jakub Kicinski To: Thorsten Leemhuis Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: driver-api: firmware: add driver firmware guidelines. Message-ID: <20220718150414.1767bbd8@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: <97e5afd3-77a3-2227-0fbf-da2f9a41520f@leemhuis.info> References: <20220718072144.2699487-1-airlied@gmail.com> <97e5afd3-77a3-2227-0fbf-da2f9a41520f@leemhuis.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, Dave Airlie , Jonathan Corbet , dri-devel@lists.sf.net, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, mcgrof@kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, Daniel Vetter , gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, Dave Airlie , torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org X-BeenThere: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: alsa-devel-bounces@alsa-project.org Sender: "Alsa-devel" On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:33:11 +0200 Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > If the hardware isn't > > + enabled by default or under development, > > Wondering if it might be better to drop the "or under development", as > the "enabled by default" is the main part afaics. Maybe something like > "If support for the hardware is normally inactive (e.g. has to be > enabled manually by a kernel parameter)" would be better anyway. It's a tricky one, I'd say something like you can break the FW ABI "until HW becomes available for public consumption" or such. I'm guessing what we're after is letting people break the compatibility in early stages of the product development cycles. Pre-silicon and bring up, but not after there are products on the market? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9871CCA479 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 22:04:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S236279AbiGRWEb (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:04:31 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:51074 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S235709AbiGRWE3 (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:04:29 -0400 Received: from ams.source.kernel.org (ams.source.kernel.org [IPv6:2604:1380:4601:e00::1]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B9AE1F2D6; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 15:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.kernel.org (relay.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ams.source.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 778DBB817B5; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 22:04:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F0E7DC341C0; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 22:04:16 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1658181860; bh=3JxZkLM8MBszfDbDjwosYrF471wfmGyjogJnExYKUPY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=BSlcJtetWKT66UYJ5KpIsH1zskh3T2ZqU/URAT5Y8TZeNrDkyU4XdYFBS1UCq8HGs OeAcEtyYH5QPq1S0Yf81A5dfERgEQxdiY1nFXXqysSevgo4VJ10WCEzxjCSTsywggx 5o3XEpBmhlD+Mj4w7jqRwz28mrK0Ev4Pvv7VC/qnVVpXS6vgAgZnf3vmjMzM//0TM+ m2PNihIHQjQ8iDbkBmz1rc3GpaRWbkpAqP8iOcdqqB4t+W5qDj3Ykk/sudVMnTAfSN MIStUtpzJ2s7xfcOgw526ZqsCKTTUvFKUQGKMYkCj01RTmOKRLDqptGyKlWg1k0DIr kQpGkmvYq8x6g== Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 15:04:14 -0700 From: Jakub Kicinski To: Thorsten Leemhuis Cc: Dave Airlie , torvalds@linux-foundation.org, Jonathan Corbet , linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, Daniel Vetter , mcgrof@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.sf.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, Dave Airlie Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: driver-api: firmware: add driver firmware guidelines. Message-ID: <20220718150414.1767bbd8@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: <97e5afd3-77a3-2227-0fbf-da2f9a41520f@leemhuis.info> References: <20220718072144.2699487-1-airlied@gmail.com> <97e5afd3-77a3-2227-0fbf-da2f9a41520f@leemhuis.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-block@vger.kernel.org On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:33:11 +0200 Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > If the hardware isn't > > + enabled by default or under development, > > Wondering if it might be better to drop the "or under development", as > the "enabled by default" is the main part afaics. Maybe something like > "If support for the hardware is normally inactive (e.g. has to be > enabled manually by a kernel parameter)" would be better anyway. It's a tricky one, I'd say something like you can break the FW ABI "until HW becomes available for public consumption" or such. I'm guessing what we're after is letting people break the compatibility in early stages of the product development cycles. Pre-silicon and bring up, but not after there are products on the market?