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[81.232.4.135]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g8-20020a2ea4a8000000b0026707e5a611sm791580ljm.20.2022.08.31.09.14.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 31 Aug 2022 09:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 18:14:26 +0200 From: "Edgar E. Iglesias" To: Alex =?iso-8859-1?Q?Benn=E9e?= Cc: "qemu-devel@nongnu.org" , Mark Burton , Bill Mills , Philippe =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mathieu-Daud=E9?= , Richard Henderson , Paolo Bonzini , Peter Maydell , Michael Rolnik , Taylor Simpson , Song Gao , Xiaojuan Yang , =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9dric?= Le Goater , Palmer Dabbelt , Alistair Francis , Bin Meng , David Gibson , Markus Armbruster , Michael Roth , Luc Michel , Damien Hedde , Alessandro Di Federico Subject: Re: Any interest in a QEMU emulation BoF at KVM Forum? Message-ID: <20220831161426.GA813051@toto> References: <87a67kphih.fsf@linaro.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87a67kphih.fsf@linaro.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12d; envelope-from=edgar.iglesias@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 03:35:19PM +0100, Alex Bennée wrote: > Hi, > > Given our slowly growing range of TCG emulations and the evident > interest in keeping up with modern processor architectures is it worth > having an emulation focused BoF at the up-coming KVM Forum? Hi Alex, Yes, I'd be interested in all topics you mention. Best regards, Edgar > > Some potential topics for discussion I could think of might include: > > * Progress towards heterogeneous vCPU emulation > > We've been making slow progress in removing assumptions from the > various front-ends about their global nature and adding accel:TCG > abstractions and support for the translator loop. We can already have > CPUs from the same architecture family in a model. What else do we need > to do so we can have those funky ARM+RiscV+Tricore heterogeneous > models? Is it library or something else? > > * External Device Models > > I know this is a contentious topic given the potential for GPL > end-runs. However there are also good arguments for enabling the > testing of open source designs without having forcing the > implementation of a separate C model to test software. For example if > we hypothetically modelled a Pi Pico would it make sense to model the > PIO in C if we could just compile the Verilog for it into a SystemC > model? Would a plethora of closed device models be the inevitable > consequence of such an approach? Would it matter if we just > concentrated on supporting useful open source solutions? > > * Dynamic Machine Models > > While we try and avoid modelling bespoke virtual HW in QEMU > (virt/goldfish not withstanding ;-) there is obviously a desire in the > EDA space to allow such experimentation. Is this something we can > provide so aspiring HW engineers can experiment with system > architectures without having to form QEMU and learn QOM. There have > been suggestions about consuming device trees or maybe translating to > QMP calls and adding support for wiring devices together. Given the > number of forks that exist is this something that could be better > supported upstream without degenerating into messy hacks? > > * A sense of time > > Currently we have the fairly limited support for -icount in QEMU. At > the same time we have no desire to start expanding frontends with > the details cost models required for a more realistic sense of time to > be presented. One suggestion is to expand the TCG plugin interface to > allow for the plugin to control time allowing as much or little logic > to be pushed there as we like and freeing up frontends from ever having > to consider it. > > Are any of these topics of interest? Are there any other emulation > topics people would like to discuss? > > -- > Alex Bennée