From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from ws5-mx01.kavi.com (ws5-mx01.kavi.com [34.193.7.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 909CDC6FD1B for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.242]) by ws5-mx01.kavi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC5841A0F for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42859866E4 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org (host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.97]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with QMQP id A5FEA9866C9; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:40 +0000 (UTC) Mailing-List: contact virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org; run by ezmlm List-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1B39866D2 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kavi.com X-MC-Unique: 92BXJKmuM0KnOff_2CAJ0Q-1 X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678206622; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=98uTpV145EHl6mWYX6PEdg9YvFQFDXpZnjZkBUxBGOA=; b=jVUnTU0L7BsxlbwvPF45doEG9EDnbzaBDe06elHv5ZG+UdmezHBAOm8oOcva+QIoWo BML54EU2fLWWdR2l7Tumjra/lI7S/xZjJanVwoxGM7D52Bg22ax3MAQYC8+nXTD/vej0 K/xEYiQ77+8HOU3zdyDL7VR3FLjKxQchq7lVzwDfZekB6kglkMlOO2I0Bp6XR6hDSy83 YgryxhCCcHCUfBB9zF6WZRr7HDecrOWgo9cOCOnwpycH2G+vXBToLu90brrAi+UPHqkj uMooBVqWxUt2fae1V2NtGjIOvCdaJT+XdeTj/Pu5yc6Ja27CWCdKyAUSr5kDnQiytOBN hLFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWAIbiHGstXpJw5yyWrq8aX7UONizahM+NpXV8Anwx5x42XYfb1 dddoVBf7fcdCSK13rb2AUJIJEs1iaDmw4pHBmKiSl4P2xUn8QQXZqyr9cpYhX4tWc04/eFCEI2C YzED+FxulbP0+4sStfVk5nUTTB9Ssd1KgkA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4592:b0:3dc:4b87:a570 with SMTP id r18-20020a05600c459200b003dc4b87a570mr15049179wmo.35.1678206622782; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:30:22 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/3cGwPVcLPEiWEN9ZllIVLV+KRX2c60uew36WCnuHEF/YjPIU531LHeUqATzFQ/uVEVn08hQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4592:b0:3dc:4b87:a570 with SMTP id r18-20020a05600c459200b003dc4b87a570mr15049147wmo.35.1678206622440; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:30:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:30:18 -0500 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Jiri Pirko Cc: virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, jasowang@redhat.com, cohuck@redhat.com, sgarzare@redhat.com, stefanha@redhat.com, nrupal.jani@intel.com, Piotr.Uminski@intel.com, hang.yuan@intel.com, virtio@lists.oasis-open.org, Zhu Lingshan , pasic@linux.ibm.com, Shahaf Shuler , Parav Pandit , Max Gurtovoy Message-ID: <20230307111458-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20c81b66f0b21b5bd646c24840ac3f8462c86acf.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com> <20230306133816-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] [PATCH v10 04/10] admin: introduce virtio admin virtqueues On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 08:36:41AM +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote: > Hmm, if not for now, the future exension would not be so simple, I fear. Without knowing what it is I can't say. > > > > >Passing commands to devices themselves is already covered in spec > >reasonably well though not in a generic way. > > You mean using the control queue, correct? Depends on the device type. network devices have a control queue, yes. > >From one of the patch description of this patchset I understand that you > cannot use control queue for this because control queue is > device-specific, yet group control is device-agnostic. > > My undestanding therefore was, that the admin queue you are introducing > serves as a generic carrier for device-agnostic commands, in parallel > for having control queue serving as a generic carrier of device-specific > commands. If this is not the case, I think it would be nice to describe > the exact monivation and scope of admin queue. Nope unfortunately. This queue is just a carrier for admin commands. admin commands are commands that talk to one device about other devices. There's clearly no mechanism in the spec to do that, so we plug this hole. > > > > >What we lack is passing commands about one device to another device. > >E.g. control VFs through PFs. > > Could you provide examples of such commands please? For example a common feature is to program a vlan and have device put a given VF inside this vlan. In a virtualization scenario host controls this vlan programming giving the network a measure of protection from VFs. If a VF is passed through to a VM, IOMMU limits VFs to only access guest memory so host has to do this programming through a PF. > > >This is what groups do. > >But if we see more uses we can always add them. > > > > > >I'd rather avoid being too generic though. > > In that case, why not to avoid using generic terms and stay > "group-centric"? What I mean is: > "Administration Virtqueues" -> "Group Administration Virtqueues" > "struct virtio_admin_cmd" -> "struct virtio_group_admin_cmd" > > Etc. Helps to avoid confusion. Sure, I tried to do that but missed some opportunities. Will address. > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> >+than one administration virtqueue. > > > [...] > This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required before posting. Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from ws5-mx01.kavi.com (ws5-mx01.kavi.com [34.193.7.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12F04C6FD1A for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.242]) by ws5-mx01.kavi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707EC26A30 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FEC59866D0 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org (host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.97]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with QMQP id 51D8F9866C6; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:36 +0000 (UTC) Mailing-List: contact virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org; run by ezmlm List-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBA09866C7 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:30:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kavi.com X-MC-Unique: A8ooIzA9MSqvqXoHtq1lTQ-1 X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678206622; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=98uTpV145EHl6mWYX6PEdg9YvFQFDXpZnjZkBUxBGOA=; b=lxXyGkAOemKfLwrdI6JPh94ll2LW8w77Y5ON/vEhZKPEc4jn75DrbDgrxBEIFg0PTL ZnUmtAzL/h92OQG3uvEyWB1BLX9q+cxts6sjLhVAGRaB33Xf1j4XQZOnpo4hDBA4Lh7h w8XLc5C1Ns560CKv3LYGs9sC/Hc7AP/QdSiIfbK901JiFAtUK4iNSKga0cQYeFq7Qp6k Rw24JEuuPiQ/pmpBu4PzYGyshIT50KyIeV/HxyiM16wmfMSp7ltmI1pj7qIwPbggqMi3 2HktMQT7VjpO0RfLHGQFu1jZcCXB9MThbIycpgBVzxL24MxzV5JUx0A/tD62t+HaUVy5 QJ5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKXE/DOjn9onty2QgmreNkAHwcEIXp8zRwTFXmFskKNF5SwLKCaf 4U4XbV7BgBC/KEBX4TWCcZ0d4wvu7FELyCulVVBvToiuZs7qUJkarNboBAMVGd4y6ElZTUWEWOP k9dMNKs+3S/2htDDjH2L1tz+evjS3 X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4592:b0:3dc:4b87:a570 with SMTP id r18-20020a05600c459200b003dc4b87a570mr15049168wmo.35.1678206622779; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:30:22 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/3cGwPVcLPEiWEN9ZllIVLV+KRX2c60uew36WCnuHEF/YjPIU531LHeUqATzFQ/uVEVn08hQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4592:b0:3dc:4b87:a570 with SMTP id r18-20020a05600c459200b003dc4b87a570mr15049147wmo.35.1678206622440; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:30:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2023 11:30:18 -0500 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Jiri Pirko Cc: virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, jasowang@redhat.com, cohuck@redhat.com, sgarzare@redhat.com, stefanha@redhat.com, nrupal.jani@intel.com, Piotr.Uminski@intel.com, hang.yuan@intel.com, virtio@lists.oasis-open.org, Zhu Lingshan , pasic@linux.ibm.com, Shahaf Shuler , Parav Pandit , Max Gurtovoy Message-ID: <20230307111458-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20c81b66f0b21b5bd646c24840ac3f8462c86acf.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com> <20230306133816-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [virtio-dev] Re: [virtio] [PATCH v10 04/10] admin: introduce virtio admin virtqueues On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 08:36:41AM +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote: > Hmm, if not for now, the future exension would not be so simple, I fear. Without knowing what it is I can't say. > > > > >Passing commands to devices themselves is already covered in spec > >reasonably well though not in a generic way. > > You mean using the control queue, correct? Depends on the device type. network devices have a control queue, yes. > >From one of the patch description of this patchset I understand that you > cannot use control queue for this because control queue is > device-specific, yet group control is device-agnostic. > > My undestanding therefore was, that the admin queue you are introducing > serves as a generic carrier for device-agnostic commands, in parallel > for having control queue serving as a generic carrier of device-specific > commands. If this is not the case, I think it would be nice to describe > the exact monivation and scope of admin queue. Nope unfortunately. This queue is just a carrier for admin commands. admin commands are commands that talk to one device about other devices. There's clearly no mechanism in the spec to do that, so we plug this hole. > > > > >What we lack is passing commands about one device to another device. > >E.g. control VFs through PFs. > > Could you provide examples of such commands please? For example a common feature is to program a vlan and have device put a given VF inside this vlan. In a virtualization scenario host controls this vlan programming giving the network a measure of protection from VFs. If a VF is passed through to a VM, IOMMU limits VFs to only access guest memory so host has to do this programming through a PF. > > >This is what groups do. > >But if we see more uses we can always add them. > > > > > >I'd rather avoid being too generic though. > > In that case, why not to avoid using generic terms and stay > "group-centric"? What I mean is: > "Administration Virtqueues" -> "Group Administration Virtqueues" > "struct virtio_admin_cmd" -> "struct virtio_group_admin_cmd" > > Etc. Helps to avoid confusion. Sure, I tried to do that but missed some opportunities. Will address. > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> >+than one administration virtqueue. > > > [...] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org