From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from ws5-mx01.kavi.com (ws5-mx01.kavi.com [34.193.7.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06D3AC6FD1B for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.242]) by ws5-mx01.kavi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D013E31A for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29A149866DE for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org (host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.97]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with QMQP id 1EF039866D0; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Mailing-List: contact virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org; run by ezmlm List-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB04E9866CD for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kavi.com X-MC-Unique: JrYEhO_MMjePEAs3zAGnew-1 X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678209608; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=4c/jjonrqmNyOFE95HXC5s3gnf6PpwJOBe7JbDtandI=; b=MyGdjJHaNR1zxVKGoUmSqgtkhAFg4+ZQi/WMwvqqRg6Yh2BK+HAP71OS2WQB6SCaK4 spPkINseKZJvTCKJzWDcoRh5ugReTZNF9lS5fcHO3ApLn/nkSVqS6p7byhi0WsIquxcq jqa/5SxEI3OiBCoSG3QLx3GHQ5Bvds/u3af7sIyDBsHxmir8H/X/tDgRXjodU+VRq7S1 56QkWmKqUoopheVcykJjEqIO4AuTRdWHfxtPy0a+WaAUv9Xjv8JMlUcAKzAwzlEGh1jJ lzUY6oX9d8tzX25ZLyHN3A5g9ou6+DbqQZqEZerEJXTQUHu1aoswEs3knh67PuJKL+wz EIBg== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKU2YQV9Yk8XiyXj+vRl11wE0oyr/yy/6zp6R+cCxlcjqw+qzYVC 63M+cVmhBM/hhtcEvcfVquCSIrLochYkrx1v1c5GZXJ9eXsi1rRD8JNDWSpTWQF0IJEiGPlhdiN I3RjIkRoUAK8POxC3ansZvOF0fj9+gbnsng== X-Received: by 2002:adf:da42:0:b0:2c7:16c3:175e with SMTP id r2-20020adfda42000000b002c716c3175emr9825328wrl.64.1678209608106; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 09:20:08 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set+6dUQP/Apzdx32m6cubqju33TTloihFSwu4eoMYxcGt7txqVAXW2E/CsMAEw0J5uqVJKYueA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:da42:0:b0:2c7:16c3:175e with SMTP id r2-20020adfda42000000b002c716c3175emr9825306wrl.64.1678209607807; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 09:20:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2023 12:20:03 -0500 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Jiri Pirko Cc: virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, jasowang@redhat.com, cohuck@redhat.com, sgarzare@redhat.com, stefanha@redhat.com, nrupal.jani@intel.com, Piotr.Uminski@intel.com, hang.yuan@intel.com, virtio@lists.oasis-open.org, Zhu Lingshan , pasic@linux.ibm.com, Shahaf Shuler , Parav Pandit , Max Gurtovoy Message-ID: <20230307121529-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20230306175020-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [virtio-comment] [PATCH v10 00/10] Introduce device group and device management On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 08:21:54AM +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote: > Mon, Mar 06, 2023 at 11:54:45PM CET, mst@redhat.com wrote: > >On Mon, Mar 06, 2023 at 01:29:30PM +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote: > >> Thu, Mar 02, 2023 at 02:04:48PM CET, mst@redhat.com wrote: > >> > >> [...] > >> > >> > > >> >TODO (maybe?) - probably ok to defer until this part is upstream: > >> > > >> > Add "all members" member id. > >> > > >> > Add commands for MSI, feature discovery. > >> > > >> > Add commands for transport vq. > >> > > >> > > >> >My intent is to try and support both SR-IOV and SIOV > >> >usecases with the same structure and maybe even the same > >> >VQ. > >> > >> Sorry to be late to the party, I'm trying to catch up. Is it common to > >> have cover letter for features this brief? I mean, from the cover > >> letter, I'm totally unable to understand what you are introducing here. > >> > >> Could you elaborate about what you are aiming to achive with this? > >> Could you shed some usecases perhaps? > >> > >> I have to be missing something obvious, but I don't get why any notion > >> of SR-IOV could be beneficial for virtio. > >> > > > >Good point, I'll add a bit of motivation. > > > >For SR-IOV, it is not unusual for PFs to excercise control over VFs. > > I understand the concepts of SR-IOV. Yet I fail to see the need of such > concept in virtio world. SR-IOV is very specific solution for PCI > functions instantiation, and I believe that it is already considered > quite limiting in many aspects. Does not make sense to me to introduce > it for virtio. But again, I may be missing something crucial, I just > would like to see the motivation, needs, usecases for this crystal > clear, which is opposite to the current cover letter I'm afraid :/ First people are asking for it because it's out there, however limiting it is. In fact Nvidia is - why don't you talk to Parav here and tell him that SR-IOV is legacy and there's no need to support. > > >There is interest in the community to include an interface to allow this > >in the virtio spec, when the PF is a virtio device. This is what this > >patch does. > > Yeah, but why? As I asked before, what are the usecases? The fact there > is interest in the community does not mean it makes sense to have it :) > If people want to build such hardware it will need some interface. Far better to have it standard. But generally e.g. intel already said they will reuse this same structure with a different group type for SIOV support. I'll mention this in the cover letter. > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >For example, it might make sense to split creating/destroying > >> >SIOV devices from the transport passing data from the guest - the > >> >driver would then not negotiate VIRTIO_F_SR_IOV (which > >> >then means auto-provisioning). > >> > > >> >This is out of RFC, since we have two commands which are useful > >> >to discover supported group types (ATM can be none or SR-IOV). > >> > > >> > > >> >Michael S. Tsirkin (10): > >> > virtio: document forward compatibility guarantees > >> > admin: introduce device group and related concepts > >> > admin: introduce group administration commands > >> > admin: introduce virtio admin virtqueues > >> > pci: add admin vq registers to virtio over pci > >> > mmio: document ADMIN_VQ as reserved > >> > ccw: document ADMIN_VQ as reserved > >> > admin: command list discovery > >> > admin: conformance clauses > >> > ccw: document more reserved features > >> > > >> > admin.tex | 540 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> > content.tex | 112 +++++++++- > >> > introduction.tex | 3 + > >> > 3 files changed, 653 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) > >> > create mode 100644 admin.tex > >> > > >> >-- > >> >MST > >> > > >> > > >> >This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > >> >OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > >> > > >> >In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > >> >to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > >> >before posting. > >> > > >> >Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> >Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> >List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > >> >List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > >> >Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > >> >List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > >> >Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > >> >Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > >> > > >> > >> This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > >> OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > >> > >> In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > >> to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > >> before posting. > >> > >> Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > >> List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > >> Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > >> List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > >> Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > >> Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > > This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required before posting. Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from ws5-mx01.kavi.com (ws5-mx01.kavi.com [34.193.7.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 822DBC6FD1A for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.242]) by ws5-mx01.kavi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A74A41F1C for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18D59866E7 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org (host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.97]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with QMQP id A5D429866F8; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Mailing-List: contact virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org; run by ezmlm List-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26589986702 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 17:20:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kavi.com X-MC-Unique: _MbyqFx8OJS_gBpTZIaWrw-1 X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678209608; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=4c/jjonrqmNyOFE95HXC5s3gnf6PpwJOBe7JbDtandI=; b=BaY7ubjPKikWw2y4SYE9j2ltIsbnNYGVLGuRWT00gf+qhxfT6cesj2Fbo0vdA74Y6L 3LmDjXRBtSM5mpFpg7GrFBvT4k0/o5czcOCES03i3qnr+1lOvb5D3tmoBdVo23oVrOca pr/63NNnw+6FgxBGV1PfaiTawVAEuyMPCnaMwqZxqW5cq/m4dKxXgm3ioI3MZU3ob3Ne vVR2V6F2lbrKzeOgnG3K+YVMELvK3fWSMfRRpobEIYLqTaKt+pWOgWD+m7jNAVOAuBIb +q22r5Zs7dQeUTGqvBggBUAEdCRT9jS4gTf4E2ShFExjas3/QfSWwPPcgP1rc8aqo0Wj ziig== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWZaJQJ6PvaC2s9kdWW+CR2ekJAzhlo/iCzijsmiG1/twbhBT9d VXWbiDUEQNzdD5Da1ELMfQst2MXPl7yMfwc+3IkMgS9DgPDvq4shl9lJKH7wCZWJQ26+dNAQ6is jydr7bedUg16rhhSPTJuQUroxOhPg X-Received: by 2002:adf:da42:0:b0:2c7:16c3:175e with SMTP id r2-20020adfda42000000b002c716c3175emr9825321wrl.64.1678209608105; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 09:20:08 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set+6dUQP/Apzdx32m6cubqju33TTloihFSwu4eoMYxcGt7txqVAXW2E/CsMAEw0J5uqVJKYueA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:da42:0:b0:2c7:16c3:175e with SMTP id r2-20020adfda42000000b002c716c3175emr9825306wrl.64.1678209607807; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 09:20:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2023 12:20:03 -0500 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Jiri Pirko Cc: virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, jasowang@redhat.com, cohuck@redhat.com, sgarzare@redhat.com, stefanha@redhat.com, nrupal.jani@intel.com, Piotr.Uminski@intel.com, hang.yuan@intel.com, virtio@lists.oasis-open.org, Zhu Lingshan , pasic@linux.ibm.com, Shahaf Shuler , Parav Pandit , Max Gurtovoy Message-ID: <20230307121529-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20230306175020-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [virtio-dev] Re: [virtio-comment] [PATCH v10 00/10] Introduce device group and device management On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 08:21:54AM +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote: > Mon, Mar 06, 2023 at 11:54:45PM CET, mst@redhat.com wrote: > >On Mon, Mar 06, 2023 at 01:29:30PM +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote: > >> Thu, Mar 02, 2023 at 02:04:48PM CET, mst@redhat.com wrote: > >> > >> [...] > >> > >> > > >> >TODO (maybe?) - probably ok to defer until this part is upstream: > >> > > >> > Add "all members" member id. > >> > > >> > Add commands for MSI, feature discovery. > >> > > >> > Add commands for transport vq. > >> > > >> > > >> >My intent is to try and support both SR-IOV and SIOV > >> >usecases with the same structure and maybe even the same > >> >VQ. > >> > >> Sorry to be late to the party, I'm trying to catch up. Is it common to > >> have cover letter for features this brief? I mean, from the cover > >> letter, I'm totally unable to understand what you are introducing here. > >> > >> Could you elaborate about what you are aiming to achive with this? > >> Could you shed some usecases perhaps? > >> > >> I have to be missing something obvious, but I don't get why any notion > >> of SR-IOV could be beneficial for virtio. > >> > > > >Good point, I'll add a bit of motivation. > > > >For SR-IOV, it is not unusual for PFs to excercise control over VFs. > > I understand the concepts of SR-IOV. Yet I fail to see the need of such > concept in virtio world. SR-IOV is very specific solution for PCI > functions instantiation, and I believe that it is already considered > quite limiting in many aspects. Does not make sense to me to introduce > it for virtio. But again, I may be missing something crucial, I just > would like to see the motivation, needs, usecases for this crystal > clear, which is opposite to the current cover letter I'm afraid :/ First people are asking for it because it's out there, however limiting it is. In fact Nvidia is - why don't you talk to Parav here and tell him that SR-IOV is legacy and there's no need to support. > > >There is interest in the community to include an interface to allow this > >in the virtio spec, when the PF is a virtio device. This is what this > >patch does. > > Yeah, but why? As I asked before, what are the usecases? The fact there > is interest in the community does not mean it makes sense to have it :) > If people want to build such hardware it will need some interface. Far better to have it standard. But generally e.g. intel already said they will reuse this same structure with a different group type for SIOV support. I'll mention this in the cover letter. > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >For example, it might make sense to split creating/destroying > >> >SIOV devices from the transport passing data from the guest - the > >> >driver would then not negotiate VIRTIO_F_SR_IOV (which > >> >then means auto-provisioning). > >> > > >> >This is out of RFC, since we have two commands which are useful > >> >to discover supported group types (ATM can be none or SR-IOV). > >> > > >> > > >> >Michael S. Tsirkin (10): > >> > virtio: document forward compatibility guarantees > >> > admin: introduce device group and related concepts > >> > admin: introduce group administration commands > >> > admin: introduce virtio admin virtqueues > >> > pci: add admin vq registers to virtio over pci > >> > mmio: document ADMIN_VQ as reserved > >> > ccw: document ADMIN_VQ as reserved > >> > admin: command list discovery > >> > admin: conformance clauses > >> > ccw: document more reserved features > >> > > >> > admin.tex | 540 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> > content.tex | 112 +++++++++- > >> > introduction.tex | 3 + > >> > 3 files changed, 653 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) > >> > create mode 100644 admin.tex > >> > > >> >-- > >> >MST > >> > > >> > > >> >This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > >> >OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > >> > > >> >In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > >> >to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > >> >before posting. > >> > > >> >Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> >Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> >List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > >> >List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > >> >Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > >> >List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > >> >Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > >> >Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > >> > > >> > >> This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > >> OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > >> > >> In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > >> to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > >> before posting. > >> > >> Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > >> List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > >> Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > >> List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > >> Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > >> Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org