All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: David Laight <david.laight.linux@gmail.com>
To: Ralf Jung <post@ralfj.de>
Cc: Ventura Jack <venturajack85@gmail.com>,
	Kent Overstreet <kent.overstreet@linux.dev>,
	Miguel Ojeda <miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com>,
	Gary Guo <gary@garyguo.net>,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, airlied@gmail.com,
	boqun.feng@gmail.com, ej@inai.de, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org,
	hch@infradead.org, hpa@zytor.com, ksummit@lists.linux.dev,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 23:08:16 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20250226230816.2c7bbc16@pumpkin> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <7edf8624-c9a0-4d8d-a09e-2eac55dc6fc5@ralfj.de>

On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 23:28:20 +0100
Ralf Jung <post@ralfj.de> wrote:

...
> > Unions in C, C++ and Rust (not Rust "enum"/tagged union) are
> > generally sharp. In Rust, it requires unsafe Rust to read from
> > a union.  
> 
> Definitely sharp. At least in Rust we have a very clear specification though, 
> since we do allow arbitrary type punning -- you "just" reinterpret whatever 
> bytes are stored in the union, at whatever type you are reading things. There is 
> also no "active variant" or anything like that, you can use any variant at any 
> time, as long as the bytes are "valid" for the variant you are using. (So for 
> instance if you are trying to read a value 0x03 at type `bool`, that is UB.)

That is actually a big f***ing problem.
The language has to define the exact behaviour when 'bool' doesn't contain
0 or 1.
Much the same as the function call interface defines whether it is the caller
or called code is responsible for masking the high bits of a register that
contains a 'char' type.

Now the answer could be that 'and' is (or may be) a bit-wise operation.
But that isn't UB, just an undefined/unexpected result.

I've actually no idea if/when current gcc 'sanitises' bool values.
A very old version used to generate really crap code (and I mean REALLY)
because it repeatedly sanitised the values.
But IMHO bool just shouldn't exist, it isn't a hardware type and is actually
expensive to get right.
If you use 'int' with zero meaning false there is pretty much no ambiguity.

	David


  reply	other threads:[~2025-02-26 23:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 196+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-02-22 10:06 C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy) Ventura Jack
2025-02-22 14:15 ` Gary Guo
2025-02-22 15:03   ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-22 18:54     ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 19:18       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22 20:00         ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 20:54           ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-22 21:22             ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 21:46               ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22 22:34                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 23:56                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-22 22:12               ` David Laight
2025-02-22 22:46                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 23:50               ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-23  0:06                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 21:22             ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-23 15:30         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-23 16:28           ` David Laight
2025-02-24  0:27           ` Gary Guo
2025-02-24  9:57             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 10:31               ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 12:21                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 12:47                   ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 16:57                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 22:03                       ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 23:04                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 22:38                           ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-25 22:47                             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-25 23:03                               ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 12:58           ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-02-24 14:47             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 14:54               ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 16:42                 ` Philip Herron
2025-02-25 15:55                   ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 17:30                     ` Arthur Cohen
2025-02-26 11:38               ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-24 15:43             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 17:24               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 16:12           ` Alice Ryhl
2025-02-25 17:21             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 17:36               ` Alice Ryhl
2025-02-25 18:16                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-25 20:21                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 20:37                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-26 13:03                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 13:53                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 14:07                         ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:26                         ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 14:37                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:39                           ` Greg KH
2025-02-26 14:45                             ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 16:00                               ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 16:42                                 ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 16:47                                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 16:57                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 17:41                                       ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 17:47                                         ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:07                                           ` Josh Poimboeuf
2025-03-02 12:19                                           ` David Laight
2025-02-26 17:11                           ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 17:42                             ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 12:36                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 13:52                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 15:21                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:06                       ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 17:49                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 18:36                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 14:14                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 15:40                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:10                       ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 16:50                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 21:39                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 15:11                             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 15:32                               ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-25 18:54             ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 19:47               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 20:25                 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 20:55                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 21:24                     ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 23:34                       ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 11:57                         ` Gary Guo
2025-02-27 14:43                           ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 14:26                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 22:45                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26  0:05                     ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-25 22:42                 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 14:01                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 13:54               ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 17:59                 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 19:01                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-26 20:00                   ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 21:14                     ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 21:21                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 22:54                         ` David Laight
2025-02-27  0:35                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-26 21:26                       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 21:37                         ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 21:42                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 21:56                           ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:13                             ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:22                               ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 22:35                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 23:18                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 23:28                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-27  0:04                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27 20:47                                   ` David Laight
2025-02-27 21:33                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-28 21:29                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 21:41                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 22:20                                       ` David Laight
2025-02-27 22:40                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-28  7:44                                     ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28 15:41                                       ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 15:46                                         ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-28 16:04                                           ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 16:13                                             ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-28 16:21                                               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 16:40                                                 ` Boqun Feng
2025-03-04 18:12                                         ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 22:27                       ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 23:16                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27  0:17                           ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27  0:26                           ` comex
2025-02-27 18:33                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 19:15                             ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27 19:55                               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 20:28                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-28  7:53                               ` Ralf Jung
2025-03-06 19:16                           ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27  4:18                       ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-27  5:52                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27  6:56                           ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-27 14:29                             ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-27 17:35                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 18:13                                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 19:10                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 18:00                           ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 18:44                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 14:21                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 15:27                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-28  8:08                     ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28  8:32                       ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 20:25                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 20:34                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-02-26 22:45                   ` David Laight
2025-02-22 19:41       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-22 20:49         ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 11:34           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:57             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:32               ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 18:09                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 22:28                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 23:08                     ` David Laight [this message]
2025-02-27 13:55                       ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 17:33                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 17:58                       ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 19:06                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 19:45                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 20:22                             ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 22:18                               ` David Laight
2025-02-27 23:18                                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28  7:38                                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28 20:48                                   ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-28 20:41                             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-28 22:13                               ` Geoffrey Thomas
2025-03-01 14:19                                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-03-04 18:24                               ` Ralf Jung
2025-03-06 18:49                                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 17:58                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-27 19:25                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 19:07                 ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 19:23                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 20:22                     ` Martin Uecker
     [not found] <CAFJgqgRZ1w0ONj2wbcczx2=boXYHoLOd=-ke7tHGBAcifSfPUw@mail.gmail.com>
2025-02-25 15:42 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-25 16:45   ` Ventura Jack
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2025-02-09 20:56 Rust kernel policy Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-18 16:08 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-18 18:46   ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-18 21:49     ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-18 22:54       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-19  0:58         ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-19  3:04           ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-19  5:39             ` Greg KH
2025-02-20 12:28               ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-20 12:37                 ` Greg KH
2025-02-20 13:23                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-20 15:17                     ` C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy) Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-20 16:46                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-20 20:34                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-21  8:31                       ` HUANG Zhaobin
2025-02-21 18:34                       ` David Laight
2025-02-21 19:12                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 20:07                           ` comex
2025-02-21 21:45                           ` David Laight
2025-02-22  6:32                             ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22  6:37                               ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22  8:41                                 ` David Laight
2025-02-22  9:11                                   ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-21 20:06                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-21 20:23                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-21 20:24                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-21 22:02                             ` David Laight
2025-02-21 22:13                               ` Bart Van Assche
2025-02-22  5:56                                 ` comex
2025-02-21 20:26                           ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 22:19                             ` henrychurchill
2025-02-21 22:52                             ` henrychurchill

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20250226230816.2c7bbc16@pumpkin \
    --to=david.laight.linux@gmail.com \
    --cc=airlied@gmail.com \
    --cc=boqun.feng@gmail.com \
    --cc=ej@inai.de \
    --cc=gary@garyguo.net \
    --cc=gregkh@linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=hch@infradead.org \
    --cc=hpa@zytor.com \
    --cc=kent.overstreet@linux.dev \
    --cc=ksummit@lists.linux.dev \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com \
    --cc=post@ralfj.de \
    --cc=rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=venturajack85@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.