From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFF4323FC5A for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2025 23:51:06 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=18.9.28.11 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1767052269; cv=none; b=Yq4Mpykm3czgxfnZMV0OujEKNToLwYzwJn5OIsVb1thLuV7W5JKuHa52mol/tV0wugfE40YxBZNEifxPep8qHCrzfCCZ+t2oHtEtW5QkM6hTqV6KZAJ5mQkGqKVBam2v8bOZX18rIxkpXAJWgqfnFms/NK9TMfmNxKuNzG/fL64= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1767052269; c=relaxed/simple; bh=8G1z87NDtUv08+Dk9wvXleIrURsD4VS9CIq/6dzK0+g=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=TR5ZX8A8mDLZMjNxfjAr6kSYq0rBH0/O93TYFqlFURma7DoFDHXJSo/dNkT0t+f/sFpde6fiVtFqngR6l1zX256HXsscUCf7jT5TX9AqRS6fxG6q/FE4NYJ3Zr5uTQvEO6haAtpx3kLd7DWqAus45tI62kEdFQ4cB4W6XI93ba0= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=mit.edu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=mit.edu; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mit.edu header.i=@mit.edu header.b=jdJv1k8m; arc=none smtp.client-ip=18.9.28.11 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=mit.edu Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=mit.edu Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mit.edu header.i=@mit.edu header.b="jdJv1k8m" Received: from macsyma.thunk.org (pool-173-48-82-200.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [173.48.82.200]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 5BTNoAkn021424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 29 Dec 2025 18:50:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mit.edu; s=outgoing; t=1767052215; bh=1jR/POc6g+M/RGIB1oIO7xwLkbPEOXW0kPSCMlcO2/w=; h=Date:From:Subject:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=jdJv1k8mg33cnGx6f5DgPaJgvju/jSrVB+KYtl3uHUctvzd92MCxU+hRCQtoEbI6s T6VY8HGmIM4yn5SYZpl9PuEWBOKVYjP7xkDcomcid7uc5L2peU2IiOMtui2I/NuZ6y 5+qUpCsWaRO49Gjt6vZ6e5CpFLI0uZDhEpibZMxaiXuxJCAIIsgl6ePgDRzjQT/P75 i8YD1JNSvl0YFdnpBGbl+r9x6dItJyGCgDigKu69PNAA1fxFx0G5RlzsRsZ13SloQg y1zUIOblGmloufHB8sHclhK5klpn1G9HZgJq/a4OMau2l8UG6GUd3x2WMIYUgoTUP7 fXdB95yzwadtg== Received: by macsyma.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 921A7523CF0B; Mon, 29 Dec 2025 18:50:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2025 18:50:10 -0500 From: "Theodore Tso" To: "Paul E. McKenney" Cc: "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" , Steven Rostedt , Julia Lawall , Sasha Levin , Gabriele Paoloni , Kate Stewart , Chuck Wolber , Dmitry Vyukov , Mark Rutland , Thomas Gleixner , Lorenzo Stoakes , Shuah Khan , Chris Mason , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Follow-up on Linux-kernel code accessibility Message-ID: <20251229235010.GA83368@macsyma.local> References: <8005c35a-d8dc-4908-93e5-46bd206f0139@paulmck-laptop> <435c7085-34e-16e9-5711-e53aa54cf4fc@inria.fr> <20251229104005.18b25def@gandalf.local.home> <7f10c583-4d95-432e-a536-898c79b1766d@paulmck-laptop> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: On Mon, Dec 29, 2025 at 10:59:12AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > Or do they actually feel like improving RCU. > > If they actually want to improve RCU then sure the prerequisities > > involve reading every reasonable piece of RCU docs; but in the other > > cases? Don't make it too hard. > > I only get 24 hours in each day, my friend. Experience has shown that > there are way more people struggling with code using RCU than with code > implementing RCU, so the former get priority. I could hit you with a > Spock quote from a certain movie, if you would like. ;-) ,.. and that's why I was recalling the comment, "You are not expected to understand this" and asking the question of which audience are we trying to make the code more accessible for, at least first. Yes, it would be good if there were more than one person who can understand the details of the code and who can maintain it, so we don't have teh bus factor == 1 problem. But the fact remains that are many parts of the kernel that I will freely admit that I have no *clue* how it work, and that's OK. I'm sure if I spent a few weeks deeply meditating on the code, I could eventually figure it out --- but I don't have that kind of spare time. Nor am I someone who is going to insist on a lot of documentation of internal details, since I happen to believe, like you, that accessibility to *users* of RCU is more important that people who are curious about the internal details about why we are dividing by 3, and not 4 (and 5 is right out) :-) - Ted P.S. If someone wants to spend time being the John Lions for RCU, great! But that should be someone's passion project, and not necessarily highest priority for the community at large.