From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC768351C1F; Wed, 4 Mar 2026 18:30:31 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1772649031; cv=none; b=Y/UWwo1BNLEqWiicU2sg6RvDEv9uTnvqlj9Uie8QYs0Oy4mKP++hm6UOUgfhrscdJy4Y49iRGpACNHf2AONBigUOubkNCDY6FVuI/hwPr26DTyn4hEkTQDPS2xpc36C0ldVhmcWTKRcJE7v6HgSfYC7OsF38X63sYYnHL8mGGt8= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1772649031; c=relaxed/simple; bh=3A4++snizBAapyNv68E4VeyeJMe0EyUIxq7+6aoLznk=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=LXRk/VdMZBzOC3D0aoM9OR+eucAZStdiIHNVxy+nHPu8R07lnV4S6A+5Xz9/wGqNZaRc5Nnbct10AibUQmmTvEC/db9pr2on8+2wllNt5Lzf9nyECbYTN3wDKWLrCZbOQPddxxBaKqEeCPUZbA9r7mvzgn4B+0vWbC3dSG4eMoI= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=fMsxj+87; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="fMsxj+87" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CAFFC4CEF7; Wed, 4 Mar 2026 18:30:30 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1772649031; bh=3A4++snizBAapyNv68E4VeyeJMe0EyUIxq7+6aoLznk=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=fMsxj+87FNW8R3BcSUdbOojVubkEI7VXqH9UxVPAUOcHueIEQb1GIz8KKHKTqAqVI ZDRh6/Vy76t5TbW5ooVwhfM0Z1eW1sFBb4/qX60gdJcTJqEeOzxmT+Q5rZF2AOCy8G SFhg73lSDr9D807CtE3lcQWrkydaLeVwlwOM7w2II9Caujs0XZ48t60V1T5Lqtx7I6 JB7gaZJmOIGcqdGDqBw7Hh5T6/RknLhXcAs+TTtXbXnqK4xKDfYm2dZFlVDn3jdGaf VT13DGOk6qaZibn5zURj9ob4JTHGwSpmaCf6WHh8IG1eub1Y1luUumT3GWiFSaZcLq ACufVT2HiwNJw== Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2026 20:30:26 +0200 From: Leon Romanovsky To: Danilo Krummrich Cc: Jason Gunthorpe , Peter Colberg , Bjorn Helgaas , Krzysztof =?utf-8?Q?Wilczy=C5=84ski?= , Miguel Ojeda , Alex Gaynor , Gary Guo , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Roy Baron , Benno Lossin , Andreas Hindborg , Alice Ryhl , Trevor Gross , Abdiel Janulgue , Daniel Almeida , Robin Murphy , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Dave Ertman , Ira Weiny , David Airlie , Simona Vetter , Jonathan Corbet , Xu Yilun , Tom Rix , Moritz Fischer , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Boqun Feng , linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Alexandre Courbot , Alistair Popple , Joel Fernandes , John Hubbard , Zhi Wang , nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, driver-core@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] rust: pci: add abstractions for SR-IOV capability Message-ID: <20260304183026.GK12611@unreal> References: <20260303-rust-pci-sriov-v3-0-4443c35f0c88@redhat.com> <20260304084750.GW12611@unreal> <20260304141852.GF964116@ziepe.ca> <20260304142600.GB12611@unreal> <20260304162711.GI12611@unreal> <20260304164551.GG964116@ziepe.ca> <20260304170249.GJ12611@unreal> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: driver-core@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 06:50:02PM +0100, Danilo Krummrich wrote: > On Wed Mar 4, 2026 at 6:02 PM CET, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 12:45:51PM -0400, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 06:27:11PM +0200, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > >> > On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 03:57:57PM +0100, Danilo Krummrich wrote: > >> > > On Wed Mar 4, 2026 at 3:26 PM CET, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > >> > > > On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 10:18:52AM -0400, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > >> > > >> On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 10:47:50AM +0200, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > >> > > >> > On Tue, Mar 03, 2026 at 04:15:20PM -0500, Peter Colberg wrote: > >> > > >> > > Add Rust abstractions for the Single Root I/O Virtualization (SR-IOV) > >> > > >> > > capability of a PCI device. Provide a minimal set of wrappers for the > >> > > >> > > SR-IOV C API to enable and disable SR-IOV for a device, and query if > >> > > >> > > a PCI device is a Physical Function (PF) or Virtual Function (VF). > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > <...> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > For PF drivers written in C, disabling SR-IOV on remove() may be opted > >> > > >> > > into by setting the flag managed_sriov in the pci_driver structure. For > >> > > >> > > PF drivers written in Rust, disabling SR-IOV on unbind() is mandatory. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Why? Could you explain the rationale behind this difference between C and > >> > > >> > Rust? Let me remind you that SR‑IOV devices which do not disable VFs do so > >> > > >> > for a practical and well‑established reason: maximizing hardware > >> > > >> > utilization. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Personally I think drivers doing this are wrong. That such a driver > >> > > >> bug was allowed to become UAPI is pretty bad. The rust approach is > >> > > >> better. > >> > > > > >> > > > We already had this discussion. I see this as a perfectly valid > >> > > > use-case. > >> > > > >> > > Can you remind about a specific use-case for this please? (Ideally, one that > >> > > can't be solved otherwise.) > >> > > >> > You create X VFs through sriov_configure, unbind PF, bind it to vfio > >> > instead and forward (X + 1) functions to different VMs. > >> > >> No, illegal, and it doesn't even work right. When VFIO FLRs the PF it > >> will blow up the half baked SRIOV and break everything. > > > > The FLR can be disabled. For example, PCI_DEV_FLAGS_NO_FLR_RESET flag > > will do it. > > But this is a quirk and not a feature, no? So, we shouldn't use it as a baseline > for actual features. My point is slightly different. I was trying to explain the rationale for preserving VFs after the PF is unbound, a design choice that predates the introduction of the VFIO .srio_configure callback. Thanks From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3B77EFCE33 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2026 18:30:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kara.freedesktop.org (unknown [131.252.210.166]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 845AE10EA9B; Wed, 4 Mar 2026 18:30:34 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: gabe.freedesktop.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="fMsxj+87"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from kara.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kara.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F7E44E45; Wed, 4 Mar 2026 18:20:13 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1772649031; bh=3A4++snizBAapyNv68E4VeyeJMe0EyUIxq7+6aoLznk=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=fMsxj+87FNW8R3BcSUdbOojVubkEI7VXqH9UxVPAUOcHueIEQb1GIz8KKHKTqAqVI ZDRh6/Vy76t5TbW5ooVwhfM0Z1eW1sFBb4/qX60gdJcTJqEeOzxmT+Q5rZF2AOCy8G SFhg73lSDr9D807CtE3lcQWrkydaLeVwlwOM7w2II9Caujs0XZ48t60V1T5Lqtx7I6 JB7gaZJmOIGcqdGDqBw7Hh5T6/RknLhXcAs+TTtXbXnqK4xKDfYm2dZFlVDn3jdGaf VT13DGOk6qaZibn5zURj9ob4JTHGwSpmaCf6WHh8IG1eub1Y1luUumT3GWiFSaZcLq ACufVT2HiwNJw== Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2026 20:30:26 +0200 From: Leon Romanovsky To: Danilo Krummrich Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] rust: pci: add abstractions for SR-IOV capability Message-ID: <20260304183026.GK12611@unreal> References: <20260303-rust-pci-sriov-v3-0-4443c35f0c88@redhat.com> <20260304084750.GW12611@unreal> <20260304141852.GF964116@ziepe.ca> <20260304142600.GB12611@unreal> <20260304162711.GI12611@unreal> <20260304164551.GG964116@ziepe.ca> <20260304170249.GJ12611@unreal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID-Hash: N6AAQQO27QWNDE7FMJXCFK3PQCWKM3JV X-Message-ID-Hash: N6AAQQO27QWNDE7FMJXCFK3PQCWKM3JV X-MailFrom: leon@kernel.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Jason Gunthorpe , Bjorn Helgaas , Krzysztof =?utf-8?Q?Wilczy=C5=84ski?= , Miguel Ojeda , Alex Gaynor , Gary Guo , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Roy Baron , Benno Lossin , Andreas Hindborg , Alice Ryhl , Trevor Gross , Abdiel Janulgue , Daniel Almeida , Robin Murphy , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Dave Ertman , Ira Weiny , Simona Vetter , Jonathan Corbet , Xu Yilun , Tom Rix , Moritz Fischer , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Boqun Feng , linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Alexandre Courbot , Alistair Popple , Joel Fernandes , Zhi Wang , nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, driver-core@lists.linux.dev X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.8 Precedence: list List-Id: Nouveau development list Archived-At: Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 06:50:02PM +0100, Danilo Krummrich wrote: > On Wed Mar 4, 2026 at 6:02 PM CET, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 12:45:51PM -0400, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 06:27:11PM +0200, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > >> > On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 03:57:57PM +0100, Danilo Krummrich wrote: > >> > > On Wed Mar 4, 2026 at 3:26 PM CET, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > >> > > > On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 10:18:52AM -0400, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > >> > > >> On Wed, Mar 04, 2026 at 10:47:50AM +0200, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > >> > > >> > On Tue, Mar 03, 2026 at 04:15:20PM -0500, Peter Colberg wrote: > >> > > >> > > Add Rust abstractions for the Single Root I/O Virtualization (SR-IOV) > >> > > >> > > capability of a PCI device. Provide a minimal set of wrappers for the > >> > > >> > > SR-IOV C API to enable and disable SR-IOV for a device, and query if > >> > > >> > > a PCI device is a Physical Function (PF) or Virtual Function (VF). > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > <...> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > For PF drivers written in C, disabling SR-IOV on remove() may be opted > >> > > >> > > into by setting the flag managed_sriov in the pci_driver structure. For > >> > > >> > > PF drivers written in Rust, disabling SR-IOV on unbind() is mandatory. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Why? Could you explain the rationale behind this difference between C and > >> > > >> > Rust? Let me remind you that SR‑IOV devices which do not disable VFs do so > >> > > >> > for a practical and well‑established reason: maximizing hardware > >> > > >> > utilization. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Personally I think drivers doing this are wrong. That such a driver > >> > > >> bug was allowed to become UAPI is pretty bad. The rust approach is > >> > > >> better. > >> > > > > >> > > > We already had this discussion. I see this as a perfectly valid > >> > > > use-case. > >> > > > >> > > Can you remind about a specific use-case for this please? (Ideally, one that > >> > > can't be solved otherwise.) > >> > > >> > You create X VFs through sriov_configure, unbind PF, bind it to vfio > >> > instead and forward (X + 1) functions to different VMs. > >> > >> No, illegal, and it doesn't even work right. When VFIO FLRs the PF it > >> will blow up the half baked SRIOV and break everything. > > > > The FLR can be disabled. For example, PCI_DEV_FLAGS_NO_FLR_RESET flag > > will do it. > > But this is a quirk and not a feature, no? So, we shouldn't use it as a baseline > for actual features. My point is slightly different. I was trying to explain the rationale for preserving VFs after the PF is unbound, a design choice that predates the introduction of the VFIO .srio_configure callback. Thanks