From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from relay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0010.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D149D33D6DD for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2026 18:34:02 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=216.40.44.10 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1773081244; cv=none; b=MpILatI75d248U1KFFc3RjU8cV8pROtgHXzqYDqB4MW/tU+4bcdzqGgSCK7NR8mSlrVWHfI+FJcUQwgbZrHv46DTU7Cce9TIS+rXih9RaOA5CHIqK/xYpilFwB8FJ9fPzzKq0p7/z0bOcrojjVTyZ8cG06OzBP5Wbn0IkKgQukU= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1773081244; c=relaxed/simple; bh=4g++iGG2xYs7KgkZ9DgZ4fQD2q/l/vKlFXdcG++SSj8=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=pEwt7JyzxyTAY6QUS59+Ju3HVzgg0TCe9+vCaqdXPrxcDaCB53rgwfCxsN0OLKBc0umBqwOzmrT5HtmiEJsyfd5Y/FRvK3xtOdvvrohNDl79ofPdDY04dhMlslBEp7qaqR4nb5wrEU54HatJNNMAsV8KwdC0nZH6VoqYbuM0Zsc= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=goodmis.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=goodmis.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=216.40.44.10 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=goodmis.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=goodmis.org Received: from omf12.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay02.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 637DC13A7B5; Mon, 9 Mar 2026 18:34:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: rostedt@goodmis.org) by omf12.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5C8D31D; Mon, 9 Mar 2026 18:33:59 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 14:34:06 -0400 From: Steven Rostedt To: James Bottomley Cc: "H. Peter Anvin" , Jonathan Corbet , Christian Brauner , tech-board-discuss@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, christianvanbrauner@gmail.com Subject: Re: LLM based rewrites Message-ID: <20260309143406.3d45e36e@gandalf.local.home> In-Reply-To: <1caf74551e06ef43e4cc6829c961c1de2bbf8758.camel@HansenPartnership.com> References: <20260307-clean-room-6118793eb175@brauner> <20260309095705.7a6b6177@gandalf.local.home> <20260309121629.21cabc25@gandalf.local.home> <871phtvu7r.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> <04B897EF-DEEC-42D0-8E00-888CEEA5318E@zytor.com> <1caf74551e06ef43e4cc6829c961c1de2bbf8758.camel@HansenPartnership.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.20.0git84 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: tech-board-discuss@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Stat-Signature: 5b14wruy9q6yeyo1jxage358hioxr556 X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout04 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5C8D31D X-Session-Marker: 726F737465647440676F6F646D69732E6F7267 X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX1/GSl+ovE9h3+YGYySyZ9B5vHiHQJjvZi4= X-HE-Tag: 1773081239-838460 X-HE-Meta: U2FsdGVkX1/3Nns/kXZfGf05zjbUJ/gb6S4PITuVaGsUKeGPTyBoiQBHJDfKIdnZZ9OyA06o+jY/e0D0ZdyS/pGrxIgqtZuygI4w8VA9lCKWjbWgB8UdhZv3AnmjhlZgifaJw0Inb7sVu81hjIMEP0a1fly5zp7d+jpTrIIiYGyxQaWFzdAw5z/eL89T9Npg3uQGBM/AxiomSsRG/ukgqZTZETfwXj8Pi/gdEvM9b27eIAQ+51h7D4NZGWgLW6tlRlOmU+MHafZZRsUOmq1OKxmnLWSyliKbu2FX/twr5MqH+opBg02N2jvIUFuzutI1RASEn9WsGIH70WCrXHrKQAHHPIQnOo6fxSvsdp0stN4jQU7rXv1rkL1XjPK7MJ3f On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 11:19:42 -0700 James Bottomley wrote: > I don't think LLMs will be able to come up with the necessary proof of > separation without essentially recreating the clean room process, which > grows cost prohibitive as the complexity of the work increases. I con see one AI bot reading the original code, and then making the prompts to pass to a second AI bot to produce the code. That is basically exactly how clean rooms work for humans. Now the question is, would courts agree that is a clean room? -- Steve