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[187.189.154.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5614622812f47-48aeea473f4sm4752202b6e.18.2026.06.22.07.40.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 22 Jun 2026 07:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2026 08:40:21 -0600 From: Tom Rini To: Peter Robinson Cc: Simon Glass , U-Boot Mailing List Subject: Re: U-Boot Concept Tree Proposal Message-ID: <20260622144021.GY382693@bill-the-cat> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xKzpQf9uNG78D6R6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett X-BeenThere: u-boot@lists.denx.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: U-Boot discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de Sender: "U-Boot" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.8 at phobos.denx.de X-Virus-Status: Clean --xKzpQf9uNG78D6R6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 03:32:21PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: > On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 at 16:19, Simon Glass wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > On Wed, 3 Jun 2026 at 06:06, Simon Glass wrote: > > > > > > Dear U-Boot Contributors, > > > > > > I would like to introduce the U-Boot Concept tree along with a few th= oughts on its role in U-Boot. > > > > > > By way of background, I have been a contributor for about 15 years - = around 10k commits and countless reviews. I have introduced many innovation= s into the project: e.g. sandbox, device tree, C test infrastructure, Binma= n, standard boot. Of course I could not have done any of this without the U= -Boot community (nor would there be any point). > > > > > > As the U-Boot project has matured, the demands for mainline stability= and rigorous review have created a natural friction for landing complex, l= arge-scale feature and refactoring series at the necessary pace. This struc= tural reality, which has slowed the adoption of ambitious efforts like boot= std, VBE, xPL [1], and CI-connected hardware labs, is what the Concept tree= is designed to alleviate. > > > > > > I strongly believe that projects must evolve in order to stay relevan= t in the long term. This includes code-refactoring, new features and subsys= tems, along with migration of old code to use them. A look back at the U-B= oot of 2010 shows how far the project has come. I don't think anyone would = still be using U-Boot if it had not evolved. > > > > > > I have set up a 'Concept' tree, a possible future for U-Boot, as a wa= y to regain the old pace of innovation. This environment is a proving groun= d for new features where we maintain a lower bar for risk tolerance and com= pleteness. We will accept partial and speculative features, provided the un= derlying code remains robust and of high quality, with the shared understan= ding that features may be dropped if they do not prove beneficial. > > > > > > Another difference is AI. I believe that AI is the next step on from = compilers, which also took a long time to produce good code and find accept= ance. The Concept tree welcomes (and encourages) high-quality AI contributi= ons and reviews. It accepts PRs and allows reviews on PRs or the mailing li= st. It relies 99% on automated tests (sandbox, QEMU and labs) so sets a hig= h bar for testing. It uses a separate Gitlab instance for now and of course= uses a separate mailing list and Patchwork project to avoid cluttering the= main list. Concept runs an AI-powered cherry-picker so that it keeps up wi= th mainline. In no sense is it operated as a fork. > > > > > > Once features are landed and functional in Concept I hope that many w= ill find their way to mainline, although inevitably some rework will be nee= ded. > > > > > > I recognise that introducing a new 'Concept' tree might initially cau= se confusion or concern. This is an invitation to work together to define i= ts role. I welcome all feedback - positive or negative - here on the mailin= g list, privately, or on irc. Let=E2=80=99s discuss how this initiative can= help U-Boot remain the defining firmware for the 2030s. > > > > > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/u-boot/CAFLszTg6sKpZ1yP3Pjgk9_Fx3MOh=3Di= eT2oaHfgLf3_nC+xXA9g@mail.gmail.com/ > > > > Just to report that after some brief discussions, we have agreed on a > > path forward here (thank you Peter!). > > > > Concept will become a custodian tree in U-Boot's Gitlab instance. I > > will run it, with access to my hardware lab. It will cherry-pick from > > mainline and accept code through its own channels (PRs and separate > > mailing list + patchwork). When features are ready for mainline, I > > will send patches to the main list for review in the normal way. >=20 > Thanks not entirely what I envisioned with the custodian tree, cherry > pickign from mainline and accepting PRs is very much a fork in my > opinion. >=20 > My intention was that it's a place for you to collaborate with others > on feature branches to get them to a point they are ready to go out > for review to go into mainline, not pull features from others etc > which sounds like to me a fork of stuff that may not reach mainline. >=20 > > I have been working to migrate things off u-boot.org (lab, gitlab, > > blog... and email). I am transferring u-boot.org to the SFC once this > > is finished in the next few days. If we do end up setting up email > > addresses for people on u-boot.org, I'd appreciate keeping sjg@ >=20 > As I've stated elsewhere the only emails will be for the admin > required for the running of the project as a whole. >=20 > > Tom, Neil Peter, please can you ack this to confirm you are happy with = it? >=20 > With the caveats outlined above, basically yes. I've been quiet on this thread as I think I've already put more than enough words out already about this situation. So to repeat what Peter said, yes, a custodian tree (which is a well defined thing for the last two decades, predating both of us in the project) but not a parallel and divergent tree. --=20 Tom --xKzpQf9uNG78D6R6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQTzzqh0PWDgGS+bTHor4qD1Cr/kCgUCajlJUQAKCRAr4qD1Cr/k CmQQAP904ya2WugA/AErl09yi0MxvrzHosTuiztckexYtstrsAEA8V0JNrB2zFMG l3x1rVTpYEb3esAeICEdgWcIfHfA9Qc= =ydek -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xKzpQf9uNG78D6R6--