From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from perceval.ideasonboard.com (perceval.ideasonboard.com [213.167.242.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E15540A944 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 2026 12:58:29 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=213.167.242.64 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1786107517; cv=none; b=aBBqnu54JNTzTIq3rS1xo+dhcnFTLkhEWSysnbm1b3QzorhyHP8Tb7+jLBK70NdupuR4xapWZ9zs2oOy2cTK/xJMQWc6sWsfyrMY+pmn5QBrd1dlUrSk/ZtedC4Pzi0K6jnHi88lVwJqHfwY2cPKXCXMiHQ8GsSVDsCNXrlYL3o= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1786107517; c=relaxed/simple; bh=SHq2F+PiRSHjeDexq794pGsrM3BGfu5JbR0UftAd8CQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=rqvPAfhkpB+GdKtRBJBTrlO3z42OcrfvB/j9iKgpmURPXDgatBFSUpV8F7JsIiJYis6Cyvzh2hIJYiSU/9Y4Qh1DUZD/Nz8hgYeUTUAoErAYFU96FvOZLAfgkx7nXYhNQcUFcd51sNvAbnPByhfYtVHyjYA3jdRPee2NjhfoPb0= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=ideasonboard.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ideasonboard.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ideasonboard.com header.i=@ideasonboard.com header.b=r9UmSJcH; arc=none smtp.client-ip=213.167.242.64 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=ideasonboard.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ideasonboard.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ideasonboard.com header.i=@ideasonboard.com header.b="r9UmSJcH" Received: from killaraus.ideasonboard.com (2001-14ba-70f3-e800--a06.rev.dnainternet.fi [IPv6:2001:14ba:70f3:e800::a06]) by perceval.ideasonboard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6BFD056D; Fri, 7 Aug 2026 14:57:15 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ideasonboard.com; s=mail; t=1786107435; bh=SHq2F+PiRSHjeDexq794pGsrM3BGfu5JbR0UftAd8CQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=r9UmSJcHEgLvRdeWoV0T7g/fgfrTpUd94elNlovanrUxdzYKURked5CR6zbT9OWnG D5z8EEwrD5SuFisU7pZeCY1DZTmZD2H3C+BCRSNSF+PRY6pcb8QPpvouC2HnftuDxS M0p9ThRxDMDTunPyXM/OOUo2tOLUBSQGzoBVcprU= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2026 15:58:25 +0300 From: Laurent Pinchart To: James Bottomley Cc: ksummit@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Time to call it quits for the maintainer summit? Message-ID: <20260807125825.GL2201016@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> References: <8ae41b73983eee6ba716a61b8701df6522a02baa.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8ae41b73983eee6ba716a61b8701df6522a02baa.camel@HansenPartnership.com> On Thu, Aug 06, 2026 at 11:34:09AM -0400, James Bottomley wrote: > What got me thinking about this is the obvious funding problem: MS is > free to attendees, but only had one sponsor in 2024, none in 2025 and > is on track to have none this year. The sponsorship prospectus ([1]) indicates that the "attendee gift" category is sold out, does it mean one sponsor signed up ? [1] https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/sponsor-kernel26_080626.pdf > Since Plumbers has a reasonably > successful sponsor model and the LF brought the problem up in recent > conversations, we thought we'd take a look. A colleague remarked that > it should be easy to sell seats to a room with Linus, which on the face > of it looks to be true, but when examined more deeply isn't > straighforward. The problem is conferences like Plumbers, LSF/MM and > MS are usually sponsored by engineering not marketing where budget is > much harder to come by and the justification for ponying up the cash > has to be very clear; effectively they pay for outcomes not access or > publicity (although access is required to get successful outcomes). > When you look at the actual outcomes of MS 2025 > > https://lwn.net/Articles/1049982/ > > there isn't really anything that would move the needle for a potential > sponsor. Equally, there's nothing really that couldn't have been part > of a wider discussion at Plumbers or LSF/MM, so I'm not sure there's > anything that actually required discussion at this event (i.e. nothing > to move the needle for kernel developers either). > > Before I go into potential solutions, it might be beneficial to review > the history: The kernel summit began as a stand alone event in 2001 > run by USENIX and was the first time many kernel developers had > actually met each other. It continued as a 2 day event co-located with > Ottawa Linux Symposium (still run by USENIX) until 2008 when it mostly > co-located with Plumbers and was run by the LF. In 2015 Linus > complained that he didn't find the KS talks that valuable and he'd like > to discuss process with a smaller audience, so in 2016 the kernel > summit was split and the talks went to the kernel summit track in > Plumbers and a 1 day Maintainer Summit was born. It can be argued that > the decline in sponsors began with the 2016 split and thus, as the > sponsors apparently see it, the decline in outcomes as well. Oh and > for those of you who keep saying the LF doesn't fund Linux: without > sponsors the LF is eating the cost of the entire event which, based on > what Plumbers costs, will be somewhere north of US$100k. > > As for fixes, one possibility is definitely keeping MS as is and moving > the sponsor responsibility to Plumbers, but unless I can strap Linus > down and sell companies on pitching to him directly, I fear that would > end up creating a US$100k hole in our budget. Perhaps there are > actually outcomes we could sell to sponsors but, because of the reduced > audience, we simply don't get to hear about them ... so if you think > that now would be the time to say what they are. Another solution that > seems viable would be folding the MS into one of our existing sponsored > events, like Plumbers or LSF/MM. Structurally either would be a fit > for the past discussion topics and both could probably accommodate > (although I don't think either could expand to a fourth day to do it). > A final thing we might do is change the structure of the event itself > to have more sponsorable outcomes; perhaps simply making the event more > like the kernel summit of old, so moving back the KS track from > Plumbers would be enough? The maintainer summit is limited to 30 guests, plus up to 7 sponsored attendee according to [1]. Assuming neither Linus nor the program committee are counted as guests, that would be 43 people in total, so a rough cost of $2500 per person for one day. I understand that hosting events in large venues is expensive, but if the maintainer summit is an invite-only, separate event, would it be an option to drastically cut costs by hosting it in a nearby but separate location ? -- Regards, Laurent Pinchart